Do you trust what you're being told?

If so, then please read on ................. This post has nothing to do with Shoppingtelly.com and does not represent the views of anybody connected with Shoppingtelly.com.

This post is based on facts alone. It relates to actions connected to Gavin Lindsall - who is currently one of the buyers of gems at Rocks and Co and author of their guide to gemstones that includes treatment information. Somebody you should be able to trust?

1. FACT: In 2006, customers on shoppingtelly.com expressed concern that the "Padparadscha Sapphires" being sold by GemsTV were not real "Padparadschas" but were beryllium ("BE") diffused sapphires, coloured to give the look of a Padparadscha Sapphire. It is important to note that untreated (aside from heat) Padparadscha Sapphires are among the most expensive sapphires that can be bought due to rarity - BE diffused sapphires have very little value, are commonly sold and can be found everywhere, including Ebay.

2. FACT: In 2006/2007 Gavin Lindsell who was then one of the chief buyers of gemstones for GemsTV posted on this forum in response to the concerns raised. In a very, very, long post he reassured customers that the "Padparadscha Sapphires" were indeed natural untreated Padparadschas and that GemsTV had bought these over a number of years from private collections etc. His post was categoric that these items were the real deal. Many of the gemstone fanatics on this forum were unconvinced but short of sending the gemstones to Switzerland for analysis the decision was to take him at his word.

3. FACT: Shortly thereafter, new items were available to buy on the web but this time they were labelled "Padparadscha coloured sapphires". For quite some time, the older items showing as "Padparadscha Sapphires" were being sold alongside "Padparadscha coloured sapphires" which had been confirmed as BE diffused. At no point were the older items re-labelled. The inference was that GemsTV were selling natural Padparadschas sourced from private collections alongside the newer BE diffused items.

4. FACT: Fast forward to 2009/2010. GemsTV are being asked to clarify what, if any, treatments have been applied to certain items. All items bought as "Padparadscha Sapphires" have been confirmed as being BE diffused.

5. FACT: GemsTV are able to confirm the treatments of these Sapphires many years later by contacting the original suppliers of the gemstones. Therefore it is a reasonable assumption that Gavin Lindsell would have (or could have) been in possession of exactly the same information in 2006/2007. Therefore it is also a reasonable assumption that (a) he was aware of the treatment but misled customers or (b) was unaware of the facts but chose to give unsubstantiated information to customers or (c) chose not to investigate who or what had been bought. Considering one of his main responsbilities was to source and purchase gemstones I find it astonishing that he would not have the full facts.

6. FACT: Rocks and Co are now selling "Padparadscha Sapphires". Gavin Lindsell is one of their employees - presumably acting as a buyer of gemstones. He is also author of their free book and has written their gem enhancement information. Rocks and Co presenters have said on air that these are natural Padparadschas. Presenters are not gemmologists, they are given information by buyers and relay this to the public.

My advice to you is that if you have purchased a Rocks and Co Padparadscha Sapphire and believe it to be genuine unheated and untreated you should send it to Switzerland for assessment of BE diffusion.

It is a FACT that customers have bought gemstones with information supplied by Gavin Lindsell have been misled and misold to.

A Company should be judged by its ethics and the people who represent the Company. As a consumer, you have no access to information that the Company has, so you should be able to approach it's representatives and be given an honest and truthful answer. You should never be lied to and Gavin Lindsell has done just that.

Off topic but , Its great see you back on the Forum Meeshoo. Iv'e missed you.

:mysmilie_696::mysmilie_696::mysmilie_696:

The Queen of Bling is back

:mysmilie_696::mysmilie_696::mysmilie_696:


I must admit I have never been inspired to buy anything from this channel.

Welcome back Meesh, good to have you back with us x

welcome back Meeshoo its lovely to see you back

and that was a very imformative post

Welcome back Meeshoo, great to know your back, miss your informed info.

:mysmilie_82::mysmilie_82:

nicxe to have you back meesho but where has rocksandco gone not on 642 last night was JML cook shop

Rocks&Co are now on Channl 666.

jacqualina said:

Rocks&Co are now on Channel 666.

Click to expand...

:mysmilie_17:

Hi Meeshoo, welcome back! I have missed your posts very much!

Thank you for your very informative post. I fear I am one of the idiots taken in by the Gavin Lindsall pitch on Gems TV.

I have many "Padparadscha Sapphires" from the early days of Gems TV and I must admit I am very upset.
I suspect that everything that I purchased which amounts to well over £2,000 pounds of rings, bracelet and earrings from the origional batch that may be BE treated and not the real natural sapphires as stated at the time.

Can we get a refund if we can prove that we were misled?

So pleased that you are back, so depressed about my worthless jewellery!

Sapphireblue

I'm another one with several "padparadscha" sapphires from Gems....
Some I am extrememly suspicious of, from Madagascar and others that I have fewer worries about, from Ceylon. The whole business of these stones, the diamond treatments and ruby treatments really sickens me.
Good to have Meeshoo back on the case but, Meeshoo.... the fellow's name is Gavin LINSELL !

Sapphireblue said:

Hi Meeshoo, welcome back! I have missed your posts very much!

Thank you for your very informative post. I fear I am one of the idiots taken in by the Gavin Lindsall pitch on Gems TV.

I have many "Padparadscha Sapphires" from the early days of Gems TV and I must admit I am very upset.
I suspect that everything that I purchased which amounts to well over £2,000 pounds of rings, bracelet and earrings from the origional batch that may be BE treated and not the real natural sapphires as stated at the time.

Can we get a refund if we can prove that we were misled?

So pleased that you are back, so depressed about my worthless jewellery!

Sapphireblue

Click to expand...

Don't feel like that SB, I'm sure thousands have been misled by all this one time/channel or another. I always found him very personable and believable, and if I'd had the money would most likely have purchased something he had "hunted down". It's not as if anything he offered was "too good to be true", and I'm guessing you're not a mind reader or personality expert. :mysmilie_12: xxxxxxxxx

Sapphireblue said:

Hi Meeshoo, welcome back! I have missed your posts very much!

Thank you for your very informative post. I fear I am one of the idiots taken in by the Gavin Lindsall pitch on Gems TV.

I have many "Padparadscha Sapphires" from the early days of Gems TV and I must admit I am very upset.
I suspect that everything that I purchased which amounts to well over £2,000 pounds of rings, bracelet and earrings from the origional batch that may be BE treated and not the real natural sapphires as stated at the time.

Can we get a refund if we can prove that we were misled?

So pleased that you are back, so depressed about my worthless jewellery!

Sapphireblue

Click to expand...

I echo what Argey said , dont feel down , follow the advice on the "Treatments thread " then email with your item numbers , althouh I havnt had an outcome yet . I had a really helpful coversation with Andy yesterday and others have had refunds or reasurances . My 3 Items where about £1200 and as they where bought to wear together I dont know how I will feel if not all are ok or not all are treated and therefore refundable .

Sapphireblue - you're NOT an idiot and mustn't feel like that. You bought, believing what you were told. You're not alone. GemsTV are refunding all the Pads that have been treated so why don't you email Andrew Lovett and he'll get them checked out and then refunded if needs be. I'm afraid all of the Pads will be treated irrespective of origin but it's best to get them checked. You've then got the option of keeping them if you love them or sending them back but at least you'll know what they are and can make an informed choice.

Mathilda - I couldn't be bothered to look up the correct spelling of his name because he doesn't deserve my time! Unfortunately all your Pads will be treated so if you want your money back GemsTV are refunding. They have acknowledged that people were misled. In terms of the Rubies, these have always been disclosed (albeit in a generic manner) and the diamonds, well, they got caught by surprise on that one. To be fair to GemsTV they are now looking at full disclosure for all their treatments for each piece which is incredibly welcome and hopefully will avoid misunderstandings in the future and will also put them streets ahead of the other jewellery channels. TJC is hopefully following suit but let's hope that RocksTV do as well because they don't even have an enhancements page which is NOT good. As for Rocks and Co .............. well, 666, say no more! Very fitting!

I rather think that a link to this article was posted in these pages a long time ago, but it may be pertinent to repeat it : http://www.colored-stone.com/stories/mar03/trdisclosure.cfm ... this is an article from the "Colored Stone" website, entitled " Giving orange a bad name" it's from March/April 2003

The following are snippets drawan from that article with quotes by Gavin Linsell, then marketing director of Thaigem.com..............


"
........"There are a lot of people who invested heavily [in this material], and at the moment it's sitting in the safe, waiting for [the controversy] to die down," says Gavin Linsell, marketing director for Thaigem.com.

........."There's nothing wrong with selling treated stones, but if you don't clearly label them, it's like selling soybean meat cakes as real meat cakes," says Hughes. "The Thais argue that we can get away with saying nothing, but America is the land of the lawsuit, and saying nothing will bankrupt you."

.......Many in the Thai gem trade are reluctantly coming around to that point of view, although holdouts remain. "The position [on disclosure] in Thailand is not unified. It depends on the individuals," says Linsell. "I think the heaters are still a little on the fringe, but I think that they're getting there and realizing the importance [of disclosure]."

........With appropriate disclosure, most predict that the beryllium-diffused material will find its own market niche. "While there is a reluctance to invest heavily in this product, there seems to be little shortage of buyers willing to purchase small to medium quantities," says Linsell. "After all, the results of bulk diffusion includes a wide range of beautiful colors [that are] extremely rare naturally."

.........Whether the publicity will get any better in the year ahead, though, depends on whether the industry can agree on disclosure. "I describe the problem not as a gem problem, but as a marketing and communication problem, accentuated by cultural barriers," says Linsell. "The only way this is going to be resolved is through communication. "

All this talk of openness and disclosure being so important long before any of us were being sold the treated sapphires on Gems TV and way before Rocks and Co........ now if anyone was in doubt about what Meeshoo is pointing out, I hope this helps!

Thank you Mathilda.

Gavin says one thing (the right thing), then does another! Interesting that when talking to gemstone afficionados he's happy to say disclosure is important but then the customer, who knows no better, isn't afforded the same respect. Despicable.

Interestingly Richard Hughes (quoted in the article above) is now involved in GemsTV (although at the time of the post re the Pads on st.com he wasn't) and has actually given feedback on a number of my pieces. He's written many many many articles on the importance of disclosure and I'm pretty sure is behind the push to change the way that GemsTV do things going forward.

Hi all
Just pulled out the folder with copies of my Gems TV certificate and I am ashamed to say that I bought 14 pieces of padparadscha sapphires!
The most expensive being a bracelet. I am going to write to Gems TV tonight with the item codes and ask if they can confirm if these are natural or not.

I will post my responses from Gems regarding this

Sapphireblue
ps just to rub it in TJC had a beautiful natural padparadscha on tonigh to £599 just over 1ct 4A. Seeing this makes me realise that I and many other have been had

well, i've trusted R&C all the way, i have had two padparadscha sapphire pieces checked (one from Gems TV and one from R&C) - the padparadscha from GemsTV had been BE Diffused - i'm not happy, but on the positive side of things, the R&C piece is a genuine padparadscha sapphire. Had this done a few months back, because of all the craziness between the quality of items at GemsTV, goes to show i'm not buying from them again!

Loving the fact that you're back Meesho! you've been missed!

i'm loving the fact R&C are on 666, add's a bit of spice to that fire, eh