WARNING: Payments applied for twice

I've pasted below copies of the mails showing what a miserable time I'm having with this company for being such a fool as to have anything to do with them. I'm sorry this is lazy, but I'm shattered and don't think I can go over it all even once more. I also apologise if the final e-mail (from me) is a bit whingey but I just want these people to try and understand that we are not all rich folk, sitting around all day with nothing more to worry about than our remotes:-

Me to TJC: "Hi - I'm a new customer and hopping mad I'm afraid. I placed the above orders on 18th, 20th and 21st March. When I tried to checkout last night my card was refused. As there were plenty of funds in the bank I phoned them to see what had happened and was told that the three amounts had been paid but there were a further three slightly different amounts still pending and it was the sum total of these which was blocking my account. Between myself and the lady I spoke to we managed to work out that the slight difference in each amount was £2.95 (your p&p charges for those orders) and so it would appear you have effectively applied twice for each invoice. I have just spoken to your customer services (and not the friendliest I've come across I must say) who told me these second charges would drop off after three days and as this hadn't happened it was the bank at fault. I then phoned the bank who told me they cannot remove these (as yet unclaimed) requests but that it in fact takes 10 working days, and that the information provided by your representative (three days) was incorrect. I am now in a position of having funds in the bank which I cannot use or withdraw for several days with not so much as an apology from your CS. I'm unsure of my legal position with regard to these funds, but I shall never be using your channel again and shall be posting my experiences on shoppingtelly.com in order that my co members can be aware of what can happen to their funds if they use debit cards and what sort of treatment they can expect to receive from you (i.e. a somewhat surly nothing). When (and if) you look into this please bear in mind that you have left a severely disabled and housebound person completely without funds for, presumably, at least another week, by applying for payment of three invoices twice."

Them to me. After a simple reminder sent by me last night around 6.00 p.m. This was sent at 4.30 p.m. today:-

"Thank you for your email.

I am sorry that your experience as a new customer to TJC has been less than smooth. If these amounts are still showing as "pending" charges for TJC, we can send a fax to your bank advising that these amounts are no longer required and can be released to go back into your account. To enable us to do this we would need your 16 digit number from across you card and a fax number from your bank account to send this instruction too. This is the only thing that is within our remit to do to release this amount.

With regards to our CS advisor I can only apologise that you did not find them "friendly" this will be fed back to the individual to see if we can improve their manner. Thank you for your feedback with regards to this matter, we are constantly looking at ways to improve our Customer Care Team and will take this onboard."

Apologies for any inconvenience caused with regards to this matter."

Me to them, just prior to writing this post: "Thank you for your courteous and well written reply (a rare thing in modern times), albeit not terribly helpful. You have given me no explanation of why these funds were applied for twice. I have yet again contacted my bank who have advised me that the latter two applications still remain, and have assured me that it is YOUR job to contact YOUR bank and have these requests deleted.

This is now three days that I have been stressing and wasting valuable time over this matter and, although I don't want to give you a sob story, I am severely disabled, housebound and facing the likely amputation of a leg. You will understand therefore that I especially don't need this aggravation just now. What should have been a little light relief has turned into a total nightmare."


Pooey eh? Given that they did this on three separate orders, I've got a sneaking suspicion this may be their normal practice. First request made when checking out, then add postage and request the whole amount all over again (it's probably easier for them to do this than set their systems to deal with variable postage rates). If I kept a high balance in my current account, or used a credit card, I would probably be totally unaware that they were playing fast and loose with my account.

In the meantime, having wasted an inordinate amount of time (and money on calls to long-wait customer services - their end and my bank) I wish I'd never heard of this channel. I don't know what I was expecting quite frankly, but I really don't think theirs was a satisfactory response, or is it me? I think they could at least have given me some kind of explanation as to why they did this, and try to correct the situaton themselves rather than pass it back to me.

Meanwhile, the goods? Only one received, two still sitting in the warehouse despite payments for all three orders having been made from my account on Tuesday. In that parcel a reasonable long silver chain, £12.95 - fair; an apatite necklace £19.95 (those tiny beads, the pins through which are formed into a chain) - a brilliant colour on the telly, but extremely pale in reality - disappointing; and last, but not least, a little tanzanite pendant/necklace £29.95. I'm aware that you get what you pay for so wasn't expecting much but it looked very pretty on the telly. WRONG, extremely pale and lifeless stones in unorganised assorted shades and one very dark sitting amidst a line of sicklies and standing out like a sore thumb, on a very grey chain. For the record, these opinions were made BEFORE i knew what they had done to me.

It's enuff to make yer pinkie weep :mysmilie_512: xxxxxx

I think someone else was complaining about this a short while back. Think Meeshoo had the answer as to why this happens if I remember correctly.

I am so sorry that this has happened Argey hopefully they will now get is sorted for you.

Oh Arge - I'm so sorry this has happened to you. As Spendrift said, it happened to me also for a rather large amount and left me steaming (and far less eloquent than your good self).

This is what happens and the way around it:-

1. TJC have problems with their system if there are "discounts" of any description i.e. reduced P&P, 10% discount etc etc. What happens is that (for some unknown reason) they put through the higher, normal amount, and then put it through again with the reduced amount. They have no intention of taking the higher amount but only taking the lower one.

2. The problem with this is that your Bank thinks you have bought 2 separate items and so "reserves" the money for TJC. As your Bank say, this stays live for 10 days (not 3). If not claimed, the authorisation drops off authomatically but during this period, the funds are unavailable for you to use :down:

3. There are two ways around this (a) some Banks will delete one of the transactions on your word but make you understand that if TJC claim both, they will pay both. TJC don't claim both so you're normally safe. The released funds are then available for you to use within 24 hours (usually straight away but it depends on the Bank). Some Banks won't do this at all though. (b) If the Bank won't act on your word, the only way is to get TJC to contact your Bank by fax. Their Bank can't do it so I'm afraid that what you were told is right. If they fax your Bank, again the authorisation is removed and funds are released for you.

To me, this is a nonsensical system and there are no warnings. It doesn't matter if you shop via the internet, personal shopper or via the telly, if there is a slight difference to the normal payment this will happen and is incredibly frustrating.

GemsTV do something similar - i.e. when you check out your basket on the web, you go through a banking system page. That basically is the Bank taking an authorisation. It doesn't matter if you then delete the order, change it, add to it or whatever, the authorisation stays on for 10 days.

Sorry Arge and I hope it gets sorted for you. xxx

Cheers Meesh. I know that Gems do it, but this is simply due to the card verification procedure and is only applied once which is fairly standard practice I believe. However, any firm wishing to avoid this (thus retaining happy customers) can verify the card by applying for 1p and then the full amount when the invoice is finalised.

I understand the "financial aether" but think it's appalling that TJC do this twice in this manner, and I want them to admit it and explain themselves. By the way, Gems (whose customer service and technology outshines this mob) had one removed for me so it is possible. Not only do they do this, but they do it before they've even processed your order. As one has now "dropped off" I expect they are hoping to buy enough time for the others to do the same given that all three orders were made over a period of two days.

The sum total of the three orders, although not thousands, did add up to a fairly substantial amount and taken twice this cleaned me out (including a small overdraft limit). To survive, I've had to attack my "funeral fund" - lol, thus I'll be getting an interest penalty to boot. Bliddy swines. If I had more stamina I'd take it further as I have doubts about the legality of this, and if it is legal it needs to be stopped. If I had no savings I'd be completely up the Khyber now! Overdrawn, no groceries and carer's payday tomorrow. <a href="http://plugin.smileycentral.com/http%253A%252F%252Fwww.smileycentral.com%252F%253Fpartner%253DZSzeb008%255FZNxpt484YYGB%2526i%253D7%252F7%255F15%255F5v%2526feat%253Dprof/page.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/7/7_15_5v.gif" alt="SmileyCentral.com" border="0"><img border="0" src="http://plugin.smileycentral.com/http%253A%252F%252Fimgfarm%252Ecom%252Fimages%252Fnocache%252Ftr%252Ffw%252Fsmiley%252Fsocial%252Egif%253Fi%253D7%252F7_15_5v%2526uiv%253D3.0/image.gif"></a> xxxxx

I do have to say though, credit where it's due, that their useless e-mail was one of the best written (speeling and granma) I've seen for many moons. xxxxx

Hopefully the other two parcels will be better as they were more expensive pieces. I feel like cancelling, but I'd probably be wasting my time again. No doubt they would miraculously leave the warehouse if I tried. After this experience, I shall certainly be looking more kindly at the other two channels than I have been of late. Serves me right really, I'm usually more cautious with first orders, but didn't think I needed to be unduly worried by this crowd. Iffy financial dealings, poor customer service, not so good pieces (lower end at least), and very slow delivery. What a way to treat a new customer, they must be very rich and growing like mad that they can afford to be so cavalier.

Where's me uvver l'il <a href="http://plugin.smileycentral.com/http%253A%252F%252Fwww.smileycentral.com%252F%253Fpartner%253DZSzeb008%255FZNxpt484YYGB%2526i%253D26%252F26%255F17%255F8%2526feat%253Dprof/page.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_17_8.gif" alt="SmileyCentral.com" border="0"><img border="0" src="http://plugin.smileycentral.com/http%253A%252F%252Fimgfarm%252Ecom%252Fimages%252Fnocache%252Ftr%252Ffw%252Fsmiley%252Fsocial%252Egif%253Fi%253D26%252F26_17_8%2526uiv%253D3.0/image.gif"></a> ? She's been very quiet lately. xxxxxx

Oh Argey, I'm so sorry this has happened to you, it must be very upsetting. TJC always seem to have been plagued by system and cs hiccoughs, you'd think they would have got them sorted by now.
I can only echo what Klos has said, it sounds as if you've been really unlucky with the pieces you've bought. I've had some truly beautiful pieces from them and I've had a few orders recently which have been incredible value for money. Shame your first experience was such a bad one. I can understand you don't feel like shopping with them again, and I know how patient and forgiving you are as you still haven't given up on the 'original' channel! :wink:

such a shame you've had a bad experience argey. I have also had some beautiful pieces from TJC, and the most amazing prices too for some of them. They also have the best diamonds IMO. I can totally understand why you wouldn't want to try them again though, i hope your next 2 parcels are fab and maybe make up a tiny bit for all the trouble

Meeshoo said:

This is what happens and the way around it:-

1. TJC have problems with their system if there are "discounts" of any description i.e. reduced P&P, 10% discount etc etc. What happens is that (for some unknown reason) they put through the higher, normal amount, and then put it through again with the reduced amount. They have no intention of taking the higher amount but only taking the lower one.

Do they do this on EVERY occasion when a discouint is involved Meesh?? :angry: If so that is disgusting and extremely bad practice for any company and especially one of TJC's size. Has this been brought to the attention of Trading Standards??

2. The problem with this is that your Bank thinks you have bought 2 separate items and so "reserves" the money for TJC. As your Bank say, this stays live for 10 days (not 3). If not claimed, the authorisation drops off authomatically but during this period, the funds are unavailable for you to use :down:
This could cause problems for many people and incur charges if it takes them over their credit limit but still gets authorised. Do TJC accept responsibilty and refund these charges to their customers if this happens??

3. There are two ways around this (a) some Banks will delete one of the transactions on your word but make you understand that if TJC claim both, they will pay both. TJC don't claim both so you're normally safe. The released funds are then available for you to use within 24 hours (usually straight away but it depends on the Bank). Some Banks won't do this at all though. (b) If the Bank won't act on your word, the only way is to get TJC to contact your Bank by fax. Their Bank can't do it so I'm afraid that what you were told is right. If they fax your Bank, again the authorisation is removed and funds are released for you.
Most Banks will not do this just on the say so of the Customer and I can't see TJC CS department going out of their way to be that helpful either, it's hard enough just to get a simple query dealt with. So, the Customer is stuffed either way.

To me, this is a nonsensical system and there are no warnings. It doesn't matter if you shop via the internet, personal shopper or via the telly, if there is a slight difference to the normal payment this will happen and is incredibly frustrating.

GemsTV do something similar - i.e. when you check out your basket on the web, you go through a banking system page. That basically is the Bank taking an authorisation. It doesn't matter if you then delete the order, change it, add to it or whatever, the authorisation stays on for 10 days.

Sorry Arge and I hope it gets sorted for you. xxx

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Thanks for that info Meesh, I hadn't realised their payment system was so diabolical and it has clarified a few mysteries for me. This needs to be addressed by TJC, and soon before it lands them in very hot water. Arge I do hope you get sorted out soon hon. Sx

How b****y awful, Argey! You know exactly how much you can afford to spend and are trying to budget carefully, and TJC go and tie up your money that you need for the coming week! They ought to consider that not every customer has the funds to spare in her current account, and people can end up in real difficulties if double up on authorising funds like that.

I'm sorry you've also had a bad experience with your first purchases, especially the badly matched tanzanite. I've recently bought quite a few tanzanite 'cheapies' from TJC, and all of them have been well matched and a good colour - obviously not deep, dark, blue, but a nice cornflower shade and definitely not pale and watery. I also have a tanzy necklace and bracelet from the sterling silver platinum overlay collection, with 164 and 96 separate individual gemstones respectively, all of them perfectly matched.

Having said that, I've also had some disappointing pieces from TJC too. If your pieces were as bad as you say, Argey (and let's face it, you would know - it's not as though your not familiar with jewellery!), it sounds as though TJC should refund your p& p too.

So sorry to hear this Argey x i hope they sort it ASAP for you x

Thanks for the support everyone. Just to keep you updated, a very helpful Miles is doing his utmost to sort me out including arranging a delivery/collection for tomorrow. I'll give you the full details when we're fully sorted, but thought I'd let you know that today is looking much brighter. My card is still being refused though, and my "funeral fund" transfer won't get into my current account until Monday. However, amongst other things, Miles is contacting the bank to see if it's possible to get the funds released back to me nowish.

Just wanted to quickly give credit where it's due and, as I say, will give you chapter and verse when we're better sorted. Now that I'm not sulking anymore, I can go play.

Thanks again to all my lovely "forum chums". xxxxxxxx

:mysmilie_843: - oh 'ugger.

Glad Miles is on the case Argey he is wonderful, i'm sure he will sort it for you x
Have fun playing xxx

Arge - Miles is brilliant and will definitely get things done for you. Sorry to hear your cc is still not working but I hope that with his intervention, your Bank will play ball later today.

Sue - to answer your questions.

(1) yes I think this happens every time there is a discount or where the "actual" value differs from the "normal" value. I know that TJC are looking into this but it wasn't until it kept happening to me that I realised why. To be fair to TJC they are frustrated by it also and I think are used to handling this for people in the same situation to Arge and myself. You would think it would be a such a simple thing to sort out i.e. only the charge the customer what you are going to take!!!

(2) On one occasion it happened to me and took me £650 overdrawn. Unfortunately TJC don't refund charges when this happens because the money isn't actually taken so I don't think that interest is applied but I could be wrong. The problem comes because your card is potentially blocked for other purchases

(3) Banks vary in their approach. In fact my Bank first said they couldn't do it, cue one very angry Meesh and suddenly they did it! I think they don't like to do it without the Vendor's say so but will in emergency situations.

Sadly Meesh it ain't my bank that won't play ball, but TJC's. Despite his best efforts Miles has been (so far) unable to get their bank to release their stranglehold on the reserved funds. He had his own battle with dodgy CS today, and when he asked how long it would take was told anything from one minute to ten days. Helpful eh? These call centres make great hiding places for management and senior staff of some instututions. xxxxxx

Argey, that's dreadful. I mean, if we were all millionaires with unlimited funds it wouldn't be a problem.. but we are real people and don't have double funds to spare. I hope they realise that they are depriving a REAL human being and a wonderful one at that of the means to live normally. How can that be justified? Surely many people (myself included and I don;t have the things to worry about that you do) would be frozen without access to funds which belong rightly to themselves?

N x

argeybargey said:

Thanks for the support everyone. Just to keep you updated, a very helpful Miles is doing his utmost to sort me out including arranging a delivery/collection for tomorrow. I'll give you the full details when we're fully sorted, but thought I'd let you know that today is looking much brighter. My card is still being refused though, and my "funeral fund" transfer won't get into my current account until Monday. However, amongst other things, Miles is contacting the bank to see if it's possible to get the funds released back to me nowish.

Just wanted to quickly give credit where it's due and, as I say, will give you chapter and verse when we're better sorted. Now that I'm not sulking anymore, I can go play.

Thanks again to all my lovely "forum chums". xxxxxxxx

:mysmilie_843: - oh 'ugger.

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Hi Argey :hi:

I'm sorry sorry to hear you've had such problems, I agree it's not good enough but if anyone can sort it out for you it's Miles. He's absolutely brilliant, he's assisted me on one two occasions - one was discount problem and one a damaged item - both occasions were resolved very speedily and in a very professional & pleasant manner, he's a real credit to TJC, if only all companies customer services had people like him. \fingers crossed it's sorted quickly, keep smiling. DD :cheeky:

I received orders last Wed and Fri that were ordered last weekend. They charged me twice for P&P even though they were bought on the same day. Fortunately when I called they could see that was the case and refunded the 2nd P&P. Definitely pays to check.