AY Comment On Gatineau Show

I don't know if anyone saw the later evening show with Gatineau and Alison Young, but she made a comment about animal testing. First she said that Gatineau, did NOT test on animals, and then she went on to say that NONE of the beauty brands they stock at qvc test on animals. Can someone tell me is this true? I thought some of them did. Is AY telling the truth?

I saw that and was confused too. I was under the impression that some of them did.

L'Occitane definitely do.
Since they decided to sell in China, they had no choice. You can't sell any cosmetics/skincare etc in China without it being tested first (although a product can be made in China without being tested, as long as it isn't sold in the country IFSWIM)?

So basically, AY was lying.

An EU rule was brought out banning animal testing on cosmetics earlier this year. But many companies get round it by sending individual ingredients to other companies to test on their behalf. Some will have the bunny logo, but its very hard to get and you have to pay to become a member as well. The rule to join is, no ingredient must have been tested in the past 5 years. Elemis, Decleor,Gatineau will get caught out by this especially the latter as they are always improving the products. None of these companies can guarantee to Bunny people that the individual ingredients have not been tested.

On QVC US company board a few months back someone put a link up to a anti animal testing group, it was a list of questioned ask by this US group to each company. I was surprised at some of the wording of the answers. Some did the usual we do not test on animals, others said we do not test or ask any other body to test ingredients on our behalf. Brands outside the UK do not get the Bunny logo.

The China thing, means that companies wanting to sell their products in China(funny products made by same companies in China but for sale outside there do not have to test), must allow China to conduct animal testing before they are passed for sale there.

So if Gatineau, themselves, do not test their finished product on animals, it does not mean that any individual ingredient bought by gatineau has not been animal tested BEFORE gatineau gets hold of it?

Therefore, them saying they do not animal test, means nout unless they can prove a single ingredient hasn't been animal tested from its origin to the finished product!

Have i got that right, its so confusing!

Yes, nicnac. Its a way for companies to say we do not test on animals. So unless they state we do not get others to test on our behalf, there is no guarantee.

The way she worded it was weird as i thought at the time hmmmmm she said Q and gatineau don't test but .............

I thought in France animal testing is compulsory whereas in Italy it's banned.

I agree claims about animal testing can be very ambiguous. So I now only buy from brands that are certified with the leaping bunny logo as it means "The Leaping Bunny logo is the only guarantee of such a supply chain for production, from ingredients to final product. It is also the only cruelty-free list where independent auditors actually assess the company’s claims as proof of no animal testing, rather than just taking their word for it." Quote from the http://www.gocrueltyfree.org/ website.

For a long time now, due to consumer pressure, most retailers in the UK require that the brand owner does not test the finished cosmetic products on animals. However, as other has said, there are ways around this. Testing of cosmetics on animals (quite rightly) has a lot of publicity. What would horrify many animal lovers though, is the amount of animal testing that takes place on pet foods. Again, the main brand owners get around this by stating that their finished products are not tested on animals, but the supply chain does not stand up to scrutiny - similar issues - ingredients/formulations/components are tested by suppliers, third parties etc

The new ruling came out earlier this year for the EU, no cosmetics produced in any EU country are allowed to be tested. But the companies do the finish product guarantee and send ingredients or buy them from outside the EU where the testing is done.

Thanks for everyone's replies.

donna255 said:

Yes, nicnac. Its a way for companies to say we do not test on animals. So unless they state we do not get others to test on our behalf, there is no guarantee.

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There's no guarantee when they say that either - and they do say that, while they're using ingredients that they know their suppliers are testing on animals for someone else. Just because they haven't instigated the testing doesn't mean the ingredients are cruelty-free. Company A knows that Company B is testing an ingredient - uses that ingredient as well - and tells us that they haven't asked anyone to test for them.

The ONLY way to be sure a product is cruelty-free is to buy products that are accredited by Cruelty Free International.

From GoCrueltyFree.org:

"Products bearing the Leaping Bunny mark are certified ‘cruelty free’ under the internationally-recognised Humane Cosmetics or Humane Household Products Standards.

These rigorous standards stipulate that no animal testing is conducted or commissioned for finished products or ingredients in any phase of product development by the company, its laboratories or its suppliers after a fixed cut-off date.

Despite the EU ban on animal tested cosmetics, the Leaping Bunny continues to be the only way European consumers can be sure they are buying truly ‘cruelty-free’ beauty products. Although companies cannot now animal test new cosmetics products and ingredients for sale in the EU, they can still carry on animal testing for cosmetics sold outside the EU. The Leaping Bunny is a global standard and applies to all of the operations and sales of companies, not just those for the EU. We only certify companies that have a policy not to test their products on animals for any market, including China where animal testing for imported cosmetics is currently required."

The Humane Cosmetics Standards:

The introduction of the EU-wide ban on cosmetics will not be fully in place until 2013. Even after that point, it is possible that ingredients in some cosmetic products may have been tested on animals in other parts of the world. Member groups in the ECEAE run the internationally-recognised Humane Cosmetics (HCS) and Humane Household Products (HHPS) Standards to ensure that consumers can purchase products which are produced in accordance with stringent guidelines and are guaranteed cruelty free.

While the Humane Cosmetics Standard covers cosmetics and toiletries, the Humane Household Products Standard guarantees no animal testing in household products such as bleach, washing-up liquid, laundry detergent, furniture polish and air freshener – all which are still widely tested on animals throughout the EU.

Cruelty-free products with the ‘Leaping Bunny’ logo are available from most major retailers, with an increasing number of larger producers, such as Marks & Spencer in the UK, becoming approved under the Standards.

Certified products featuring the ‘Leaping Bunny’ logo guarantee that:

The finished product has not been tested on animals
Ingredients used to make that product have not been tested on animals
Any suppliers have not tested ingredients
The company is asked to recommit to being cruelty free every year with a full audit
The company operates a fixed cut-off date after which animal testing on ingredients will not be allowed

Dips said:

What would horrify many animal lovers though, is the amount of animal testing that takes place on pet foods.

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http://www.iamscruelty.com

http://www.uncaged.co.uk/iamsexpress.htm

The Fixed Cut Off Date (FCOD) is vital to a company being cruelty free. They have a fixed year and they don't ever use anything that's been tested on animals anywhere in the world since that year. Some companies have FCODs going back as far as 1976. Nothing they use has been tested on animals since 1976. Marks and Spencer, for example, say "We guarantee that none of the individual ingredients in our beauty or household products is tested on animals either, starting from a fixed cut-off date of January 2006." The FCOD is the only way a company can be cruelty-free.

Don't fall for the "haven't used anything tested on animals in the past X years". A lot of dishonest companies try to con us with the Five Year Rolling Rule. They tell us that they don't use anything that's been tested on animals in the past 5 years. Firstly, as it usually takes at least 5 years for a new ingredient to be licensed, they couldn't use anything new in the past 5 years anyway - and secondly, it means that in 5 years time they will happily be using something that's being tested on animals today. And the 5 years roll on each year, so it basically means that these companies can use anything they like. This year they'll be using ingredients that were animal-tested ingredients in 2008, next year they'll use ingredients from 2009 etc. etc. It's utterly deceitful and dishonest.

Scout, LUSH do not have the leaping bunny nor have they ever had. Yet they are very into how ingredients and products are tested. I remember them as Cosmetics to Go, even then early 90s they pushed for testing in labs which involved cells created.