Glory !

brissles

VIP Shopper
Cant remember if we did a thread about this before, but Graphters Ltd at the address below is the same grim industrial estate in Redhill, Surrey, that is listed on Company Check, for Ultra Sun, Skin Sense, and yes Judith Williams Cosmetics !! all under the name of Abi Cleeve. Is this evidence that the formulaes used in JW is the same as Skin Sense - only the packaging and presenters are different ! Probably does Linda Lusardi, Lulu and other sleb beauty products too - all sharing the same gloop gloop machine.


Judith Williams Cosmetics
Cosmetics store in Redhill, England

Address: Graphters Ltd, 41 Holmethorpe Ave, Holmethorpe, Redhill RH1 2NB
 

Twilight

VIP Shopper
Cant remember if we did a thread about this before, but Graphters Ltd at the address below is the same grim industrial estate in Redhill, Surrey, that is listed on Company Check, for Ultra Sun, Skin Sense, and yes Judith Williams Cosmetics !! all under the name of Abi Cleeve. Is this evidence that the formulaes used in JW is the same as Skin Sense - only the packaging and presenters are different ! Probably does Linda Lusardi, Lulu and other sleb beauty products too - all sharing the same gloop gloop machine.


Judith Williams Cosmetics
Cosmetics store in Redhill, England

Address: Graphters Ltd, 41 Holmethorpe Ave, Holmethorpe, Redhill RH1 2NB
I'm sure that Queen Julia's daughter worked for them some time ago, wheels within wheels.
 

Akimbo

I don't belong here...
I used to get occasional JW bargains from Curabeauty but know that site directs ordering to Shop Skincare, so assume this is Abi Cleave's import and flog it company for the brands listed. Some of the brands listed were established a while ago or in different countries of manufacture so I always thought Cleave just imported them. I suspect that Gatineau for example, is sold from the site in deal with Andrew Baggley. I think I read on here that Judith Williams and Flora Mare come from the same stable, whereas M.Asam (which seems similar) has a longer separate heritage. But I don't know for definite.
 

brissles

VIP Shopper
More evidence then Akimbo, that there is one gloop gloop machine pouring the same cream/lotion/serum/oil/ into different pots from various brands, with more thickener added if a denser consistency is wanted. Its just the marketing and spiel thats different.

I suppose when you think about it, the hundreds and hundreds of beauty brands in the world cant possibly have their own manufacturing factory with their own 'scientists' sniffing the back of their hands, so more sharing of facilities must go on more than we realise.
 

Akimbo

I don't belong here...
I don't doubt that a handful of gloop factories churn it into different pots for a range of brand names. With enough financial backing Shoppingtelly could launch it's own brand and call it "Snake Oil" or "Charlatanique"!

Back in the 90s QVC brought over a beauty brand called "D'Arcy" and their point of uniqueness was that they created in their labs and manufactured numerous formulations for many different brands; niche, budget and household names (whilst coyly not naming any)! They brought a handful of their own brand but didn't appear many times before their Try Me set was in Last Clicks. I bought a couple and they were pleasant enough, unperfumed and ideal travel sizes.

It's not very surprising really; big chemical plants like those run by giants such as Lever Bros or Procter & Gamble make all sorts of products from perfume to nappies, washing powder to food products
 

Moth

VIP Shopper
I suppose I shouldn't name names but I used to work for a large multinational coporation. One of their daughter companies was called Cosmolabs and one of their core products was the base gloop that goes into mascaras. I saw a very long list of names they sold their stuff to and it included many of the big brands that most people know as well as lots of smaller companies. I suspect many added their own twists before selling it retail but most of them are essentially the same product.

This sort of thing also explains why I've noticed so many brands, especially European ones, all have the same flowery sort of smell to them. Sometimes it would be impossible to tell which brand is which because they all smell and look the same. I thought the same of the most recent Gatineau TSV recently, so it was interesting to see their name mentioned here too. Many brands have changed recently too, and not for the better - cheaper feeling formulations, horrible smells etc. Ultrasun is one that has been ruined. I've been using it for a couple of years but it's awful now. It used to be a decent product but now it's so thin it runs off the back of my hand when to apply it. It now also makes all product applied after it roll off. Be interested to know if anyone else has the same.
 

Turandot

Well-known member
I suppose I shouldn't name names but I used to work for a large multinational coporation. One of their daughter companies was called Cosmolabs and one of their core products was the base gloop that goes into mascaras. I saw a very long list of names they sold their stuff to and it included many of the big brands that most people know as well as lots of smaller companies. I suspect many added their own twists before selling it retail but most of them are essentially the same product.

This sort of thing also explains why I've noticed so many brands, especially European ones, all have the same flowery sort of smell to them. Sometimes it would be impossible to tell which brand is which because they all smell and look the same. I thought the same of the most recent Gatineau TSV recently, so it was interesting to see their name mentioned here too. Many brands have changed recently too, and not for the better - cheaper feeling formulations, horrible smells etc. Ultrasun is one that has been ruined. I've been using it for a couple of years but it's awful now. It used to be a decent product but now it's so thin it runs off the back of my hand when to apply it. It now also makes all product applied after it roll off. Be interested to know if anyone else has the same.
Ultra sun never agreed with my skin especially the facial product. Agree many brands have changed . I used to swear by Decleor Iris and the night balm but since the change I don’t buy it because it doesn’t give the same results.
Clarins seems to still be a good range but I don’t know who owns them.
 

boffy

VIP Shopper
I like Clarins but you don't see many deals from them. everything I have tried from them has been very very good
 

Twilight

VIP Shopper
Does sanctimonious Ms Cleeve still appear in the promos wearing a lab coat? I saw a few seconds of her recently doing her steepled hands gesture & laughed at her.
 

Super Trouper

Go on underestimate me - that will be Fun
I suppose I shouldn't name names but I used to work for a large multinational coporation. One of their daughter companies was called Cosmolabs and one of their core products was the base gloop that goes into mascaras. I saw a very long list of names they sold their stuff to and it included many of the big brands that most people know as well as lots of smaller companies. I suspect many added their own twists before selling it retail but most of them are essentially the same product.

This sort of thing also explains why I've noticed so many brands, especially European ones, all have the same flowery sort of smell to them. Sometimes it would be impossible to tell which brand is which because they all smell and look the same. I thought the same of the most recent Gatineau TSV recently, so it was interesting to see their name mentioned here too. Many brands have changed recently too, and not for the better - cheaper feeling formulations, horrible smells etc. Ultrasun is one that has been ruined. I've been using it for a couple of years but it's awful now. It used to be a decent product but now it's so thin it runs off the back of my hand when to apply it. It now also makes all product applied after it roll off. Be interested to know if anyone else has the same.
It's known in the business as Private Labelling.

A cosmeseutical lab creates ready made formulas for brands, or unique formulas at a price.
Private label labs are stepping out of the shadows and launching their own lines now. Consequently, placing them in direct competition with their own clients; hence, lawyers legally gag them from revealing who their famous clients are.
Beautybio creators are a massive U.S formulator that have mega famous clients. And M assam create for other labels too. I have great respect for Beautybio, because they are determined to add the CORRECT required amount of active ingredient into their products, and not short change us with dribbles.
Most people would be STUNNED if they knew who these labs create for. I've guessed some of them from clues in the past, but I shouldn't reveal it here. Its a dog eat world out there. 🥼
 

maymorganlondon

VIP Shopper
Love Clarins - been using them for years. Amazingly, they are still owned by... themselves!

While they don't do the offers you see from the brands that go on Q, when they do a gift with purchase, you normally get really good size products, nicely presented. They often give you a choice of which products from a set selection (so maybe a choice of 5 from 10 or something like that). It's a great way to try something new, as well as get smaller sizes for travelling.
 

Ani

Active member
I used to get occasional JW bargains from Curabeauty but know that site directs ordering to Shop Skincare, so assume this is Abi Cleave's import and flog it company for the brands listed. Some of the brands listed were established a while ago or in different countries of manufacture so I always thought Cleave just imported them. I suspect that Gatineau for example, is sold from the site in deal with Andrew Baggley. I think I read on here that Judith Williams and Flora Mare come from the same stable, whereas M.Asam (which seems similar) has a longer separate heritage. But I don't know for definite.
Referring to JW: The products come from their own labs in Austria, the make-up is produced in Italy. There is soon the "JW Beauty World" to be opened, the reason why her Beauty Institute in Munich was closed. Cura is the motherfirm, if you will, which also produces products for other labels. JW Cosmetics is a company on its own and has nothing to do with M. Asam or Flora Mare.
However, the latter belong to the same company which is Asam Beauty, also "Ahuhu organic haircare" belongs to them. Just have a look at the "Impressum" on their respective pages. They also have a webshop where you can buy all their products: www.asambeauty.com.
 

Sazza

Moderator
Staff member
I used to get occasional JW bargains from Curabeauty but know that site directs ordering to Shop Skincare, so assume this is Abi Cleave's import and flog it company for the brands listed. Some of the brands listed were established a while ago or in different countries of manufacture so I always thought Cleave just imported them. I suspect that Gatineau for example, is sold from the site in deal with Andrew Baggley. I think I read on here that Judith Williams and Flora Mare come from the same stable, whereas M.Asam (which seems similar) has a longer separate heritage. But I don't know for definite.
Referring to JW: The products come from their own labs in Austria, the make-up is produced in Italy. There is soon the "JW Beauty World" to be opened, the reason why her Beauty Institute in Munich was closed. Cura is the motherfirm, if you will, which also produces products for other labels. JW Cosmetics is a company on its own and has nothing to do with M. Asam or Flora Mare.
However, the latter belong to the same company which is Asam Beauty, also "Ahuhu organic haircare" belongs to them. Just have a look at the "Impressum" on their respective pages. They also have a webshop where you can buy all their products: www.asambeauty.com.
Flora Mare and M Asam are connected.
 

brissles

VIP Shopper
Referring to JW: The products come from their own labs in Austria, the make-up is produced in Italy. There is soon the "JW Beauty World" to be opened, the reason why her Beauty Institute in Munich was closed. Cura is the motherfirm, if you will, which also produces products for other labels. JW Cosmetics is a company on its own and has nothing to do with M. Asam or Flora Mare.
However, the latter belong to the same company which is Asam Beauty, also "Ahuhu organic haircare" belongs to them. Just have a look at the "Impressum" on their respective pages. They also have a webshop where you can buy all their products: www.asambeauty.com.
So why then, is Judith Williams mentioned (if you look on Companies Check) under the same umbrella as Abi Cleeve and her companies operating out of an industrial estate in Redhill Surrey ? (there's no telling what you can dig up when digging deep on the internet)
 

Sazza

Moderator
Staff member
So why then, is Judith Williams mentioned (if you look on Companies Check) under the same umbrella as Abi Cleeve and her companies operating out of an industrial estate in Redhill Surrey ? (there's no telling what you can dig up when digging deep on the internet)
It is because Graphters are the distributers of JW here in UK.
 

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