Make sure you read this before you buy!

M

Meeshoo

Guest
I don't mean to have a downer on what could be a new successful venture (and I wish Don Kogan all the best with it) but you need to be aware of the following that is on their website:

"We include a statement on every customer invoice advising you to always assume enhancements when purchasing our gemstone jewellery, directing you to this page for more information on what enhancements may have been applied to the gemstones you have purchased. This is not to say that every gem we sell is enhanced, we also sell ‘natural’ gemstones, it’s just easier if you work off this assumption.

We only knowingly accept enhancements that are permanent with normal wear. The only exception is Emeralds, whose beauty is enhanced and easily maintained by oils or polymers. We get our information on gem enhancements from universities, gem laboratories, trade associations, regulatory bodies, professional journals, books, the internet as well as individual experts.......


Ok. Well, I'd rather know IF my gemstone has been treated or not rather than assume but then I saw this:-

Diamond (all Colour Enhanced Diamonds including Black Diamond, Blue Diamond, Champagne Diamond, Green Diamond, Pink Diamond, Red Diamond and Yellow Diamond) Irradiated and/or heated. Always used to improve colour intensity or to produce unique colours. (Fine - I don't have a problem with this).

Diamond Laser drilled. Occasionally applied to improve appearance. (WHAT? They are selling laser drilled diamonds??? :eek::mad:)

Diamond (White to Faint Yellow) Coated, pressure heated and fractured filled. Fracture filling is occasionally used to improve clarity, pressure heating is rarely used to improve clarity and coatings are rarely used to disguise off-colour. Do not re-cut or re-polish coated gemstones. (COATED????? Fracture filled????? Not good at all.)

Then in the Ruby section they state "Heated with a high refractive index lead-glass to fill fractures and cavities and/or bulk diffused with certain additives (beryllium). These Rubies are classified as composite gemstones" and for Tanzanian Rubies "Heated and/or the healing of fissures and/or glass filled open fractures and cavities and/or dyed and/or bulk diffusion of certain additives (beryllium or borax) and/or colourless oil or resin in fissures." So basically, if you buy a Ruby you won't know if you've bought one that has been filled or has been bulk diffused (to enhance colour) or dyed! As they say they sell natural and treated you'll never know until you have it assessed by an expert.

I haven't bothered reading further because for Sapphires it mentions the same thing.

I don't know whether to applaud Rocks and Co for being upfront or not. For me, "coating" diamonds, fracture filling (which I don't believe is stable) and laser drilling is not acceptable to me unless I pay way under the price they should be.

I'm not naive. I know that the only way for them to achieve low prices is to buy treated gemstones and ones that can be improved rather than the higher end natural untreated but I can't help feeling that the bulk of their items will have had some form of treatment.

If you buy - and some of the pieces are lovely - just be aware of the above.
 
P

Pinkpussycat

Guest
Hiya Meeshy aka super slueth. :D I haven't bought from any of the jewellery channels for a long long time because I realised ages ago (mainly because of your informative delving for the truth ;)) that we weren't always buying what we thought we were. :rolleyes: Because of this I haven't bought anything from Rocks and neither will I be buying from the newer kid on the block either. At least all this info is there for all to see (if they buy from the web and bother to look) so people can make an informed decision. I wonder if they will inform their buying customers on air though?? :pPC:
 

Lady Darls

Enlightened..!
is Don Kogan involved in this Meeshoo? I didn't know that.

Thanks for the info :)
 

Mirabelle

VIP Shopper
:) Hi Meeshoo.. great post!!!!

I think all the things you mention in your above post are perfectly acceptable in the world of gem jewelery..I'ts not the first time I have seen a company tell you all this.:)
 

Tabs

VIP Shopper
Well!!! I'm glad i did read this...Thanks Meeshoo! I was just about to pick up the phone and order a white gold Kunzite ring, however i don't think i will bother after seeing this! Who knows whats been done to that!:rolleyes:
 
M

Meeshoo

Guest
:) Hi Meeshoo.. great post!!!!

I think all the things you mention in your above post are perfectly acceptable in the world of gem jewelery..I'ts not the first time I have seen a company tell you all this.:)

Thank you Mirabelle. IMVHO I don't believe that coating and fracture filling of diamonds is generally accepted. You can find tons of laser drilled and filled diamonds on Ebay (as you'd expect) but I'd be absolutely flumoxed if you went into the High Street and they were selling them. Fracture filling in diamonds is unacceptable because it's not stable. For example, if you buy a fracture filled diamond and then put it in an ultrasonic (acceptable for diamonds), it can remove the filling and leave you with a hole! As for coating of diamonds - well, one knock and the coating exposes the carp diamond underneath.

As I said, I applaud Rocks and Co for being honest - unfortunately not the norm - and as a buyer it helps me to decide whether to buy from them or not.

Tabs - In their info page it says that their Kunzite is heated or irradiated. Pretty normal so I wouldn't worry.

Darls - Yes, this is Don Kogan's latest venture. Hello btw!

PPC - Hi hun! Thanks for the lovely compliments and I agree with you. I have virtually stopped buying from shopping channels (apart from the odd piece here and there).

As I said in my original post. Rocks and Co aren't doing anything different in all honesty from GemsTV who are slightly less open about the enhancements and TJC who you have to prise it out of!!!! Wouldn't it be good if it became legal that each gemstone came with a certificate stating exactly what it had had done to it!? I guess I'd better dream on! :)
 

ARA

New member
Hey all

Andrew here. I've been speaking to our very own gemstone expert, Gavin Linsell, who has had a few issues registering on the site but is keen to give a response to Meeshoo's comments. Gav is the guy who has put the website together, but it's well past his bedtime in Thailand (6 hrs ahead!), so he has asked me to post a response so that you all know that we are watching listening and responding. Here is Gav's typically succinct response...:

Hi Meeshoo (& Shopping Telly):

My name is Gavin Linsell a.ka. Gemstone Gav. I used to work for another jewellery shopping channel where I appeared in some documentaries and wrote a book, the ‘Guide to Gems & Jewellery’. I am one of the gem people behind Rocks & Co. and was responsible for penning our ‘Gemstone Enhancements & Care’ page.

Thank you very much for your post, I always look forward to answering gem questions.

Firstly, please let me assure you that none of our Diamonds are laser drilled, coated, pressure heated or fractured filled. An overzealous assistant and my heavy work load resulted in an earlier draft being uploaded. I sincerely apologise for this oversight and promise I’ll correct this first thing tomorrow.

Probably not surprising to those who have spoken to me, but I am very passionate about gemstones. As a member of the ICA (International Coloured Gemstone Association), an organization whose members include the top gemstone miners, cutters, and dealers throughout the world, I adhere to the highest ethical standards.

Gem enhancements are processes other than cutting that improves a gem’s appearance, durability, value or availability. Given that the vast majority of gems are enhanced in some way, I think it is important that customers have access to good information on the subject.

Gem enhancements have been part of the gem business since its inception. Gems have been heated for over 4,000 years and oiled for over 2,000 years, yet enhancements still remain relatively unknown. Why? Some cynics might argue that gem dealers are nefarious individuals who deliberately keep these things hidden. But in my experience, this couldn’t be further from the truth. In reality, we have nothing to hide and consumers have nothing to worry about. To help, I’ve pasted some exerts from our ‘Gemstone Enhancements & Care’ page below adding some underlining to assist:

“the vast majority of gems enhanced in some way”

“The World Jewellery Confederation (CIBJO or Confédération Internationale de la Bijouterie, Joaillerie, Orfèvrerie, des Diamants, Perles et Pierres) is the organization that records accepted trade practices and nomenclature for the global gem and jewellery industry. Under their guidelines, all jewellers should be aware of how the gems they sell are enhanced, disclosing this information to their customers. In a world where many enhancements are very difficult to detect (or even undetectable) using standard gemmological equipment, enhancement disclosure can be confusing for the consumer. Our threefold enhancement policy is designed to keep things simple, providing you all the information you need to make informed buying decisions”

Regarding some of your other points:

“Ok. Well, I'd rather know IF my gemstone has been treated or not rather than assume…”

In the table under ‘enhancement’ if you see the word ‘natural’ then you know that this gem variety is never enhanced; for example, Garnet, Moonstone, Russian Diopside, and Spinel. If the gem type is enhanced the table provides an explanation of what it does and most importantly, the frequency it is applied; for example, heating is usually applied to produce and/or improve colour in Tanzanite. Finally, under ‘special care instructions’ we give you care information specific to that variety; for example, you should clean Pearls by wiping them gently with a moist cloth.

“So basically, if you buy a Ruby you won't know if you've bought one that has been filled or has been bulk diffused (to enhance colour) or dyed! As they say they sell natural and treated you'll never know until you have it assessed by an expert.”

Not so. In the ‘explanation’ for Ruby we state that the enhancements mentioned are always applied and for Tanzanian Ruby are usually applied. Saying this, I again need to apologise for my overzealous assistant, none of our Rubies and Sapphires are dyed - this will be corrected online tomorrow.

“I'm not naive. I know that the only way for them to achieve low prices is to buy treated gemstones and ones that can be improved rather than the higher end natural untreated but I can't help feeling that the bulk of their items will have had some form of treatment.”

Regardless of the retailer, the majority of gemstones sold have had some form of enhancement. Furthermore, some gem types simply aren’t available in commercial quantities naturally. In this day and age, the processing of natural materials is commonplace; we eat foods with additives, make plastics from fossil fuels and wear synthetic fibres. Having traveled over much of our planet, I think the earth is awesome and treasure everything she provides. If our own ingenuity allows us to maximise our use of her natural treasures, then I am all for gem enhancements, just as long as they are permanent (or easily maintained) and disclosed.

I hope the above clarifies our position and doesn’t ramble too much - it is pushing 2:00am here in Thailand and I’ve been working since 10:00am. While I am off to bed for the night, I am happy to answer any of your questions on this or any other gem related issues either right here on Shopping Telly or emailed to [email protected].

Best Wishes,

Gavin Linsell

__________________________________________

I hate to say that, as a marketing man, this is all little beyond me but please feel free to use me as a conduit to Gav until his registration works. But remember he needs sleep too:p

ARA
 

Huggles

VIP Shopper
Thanks for the information first posted by Meeshoo and also for the speedy and enlightening responce from Gavin Linsell via ARA. It is reassuring that concerns like this are being dealt with quickly :). I was visiting the Rocks & Co web-site and am very interested in the matrix opal, I would like to know if this opal is treated with sugar and acid. Is it possible to find out more about this ARA? I haven't seen any on Rocks & Co TV yet.
 
M

Meeshoo

Guest
Thank you Gavin for your response - and apologies if my post has kept you out of bed!

I'm relieved to hear that Rocks and Co will not be selling laser drilled, coated, pressure heated or fracture filled diamonds. You will understand my concern when I read that! Whilst I know the practice is prevalent, I would never knowingly buy one and would rather be aware what's been done to my carbon!!!!! :D Similarly I would never buy coated Tanzanite - can you confirm that the only treatment your Tanzanite will have undergone is heat please?

I'm also greatly relieved to hear that your Rubies and Sapphires are not dyed. This was a major concern when I read that on the website.

As for other treatments, for me, as other buyers, there are some treatments that I find acceptable and others not so. For example, heating for Tanzanite I consider normal and it doesn't worry me at all. Oiling of Emeralds is another example. However, I will not knowingly buy a gemstone that has been treated by BBD - just my personal choice and I'm sure others feel differently. I would rather be aware so that I can make an informed choice but I do understand that with a high volume business it's not possible.

As I said in my original post, I applaud Rocks and Co for being candid about the treatments to Rubies etc. So thank you for that.

I hope you manage to get some sleep and that the weather in Thailand is better than in the UK (which is almost guaranteed I'd think)!!! :)
 

MissMagpie

If it sparkles - grab it
Thanks, Andrew, for reply to queries so quickly.

I have a question about quantities. Are some of the items stocked in very small quantities (single figures, or even ones and twos), or do all of them have a fairly large quantity in stock?

The reason for the question is because I want to know (a) if something I have my eye on is likely to sell out in a jiffy and (b) how exclusive the pieces are.

Thanks!
 

Jantaculum

black diamond witch
Thanks Andrew for passing on Gemstone Gav's very comprehensive reply.

As far as I'm concerned, the more information the better - then everyone can make proper decisions about what they are buying.

Oh and I love Gavin's email address - small shiny rocks - brilliant!
 

Huggles

VIP Shopper
Too late to add to my last post, I've just found the Rocks & Co enhancements page and I see the matrix opal is treated with sugar and acid. I've never seen any before, I'm dying to see what they're like and if their the same as the Andamooka opal that QVC are selling at quite a high price. There was no colour play in the piece I got from them, sent it back pronto ;).
 
M

Meeshoo

Guest
Too late to add to my last post, I've just found the Rocks & Co enhancements page and I see the matrix opal is treated with sugar and acid. I've never seen any before, I'm dying to see what they're like and if their the same as the Andamooka opal that QVC are selling at quite a high price. There was no colour play in the piece I got from them, sent it back pronto ;).

They had some yesterday (or today) can't remember. It doesn't look like matrix opal I've seen before (where you can see the host rock), this looked more like a black opal. As with any opal, colour play will vary from piece to piece and won't be guaranteed. HTH
 

Klosblue

Costs nothing to be nice!
Firstly :Hiya: Meeshoo great to see you back and on the ball as usual :BigHug:

I am beginning to think I am turning into Victor(ia) Meldrew!! :Vicm:

Recently I have being allowing myself to say what I think and having a good old moan about anything and everything which I feel is unfair or unjust :notfairsign:

However, I also believe in praise where praise is due and I am very impressed with the response you have given us here Andrew and the honestly which has been displayed for all to see. How refreshing that a company has enough respect for their customers to be totally honest with them, which of course is the way it should be. All too often today we are subjected to poor customer service, rip-off merchants and lies, lies and more lies by companies who promise us everything then take our money and run! I have been a manager for many years and have always drummed into my staff that they must treat others as they would wish to be treated themselves and I will not stand for anything less.

I take my hat off to you Andrew and to Gavin for the prompt explanation and for putting the facts down for all to see rather than hiding them as many others do. I am sure if this is the way you do business then you'll be around for a very long time :Notworthy:

Thanks again and best wishes for the future.
 

ARA

New member
Huggles - there is only one way to see if you like the piece and that is to buy it and take a look. Remmber we offer a 10 day money back guarantee, but I'm pretty confident you won't need that!!!:p

MissMagpie - it depends on the items. We do have some extremely rare and exclusive products in stock that we literally have in ones and twos. We don't have huge amounts of any individual design because we are trying to offer variety over quantity. The same applies as for Huggles - if you like it then go for it, you can always return it and we would love some feedback.

Keep the questions coming... :)
 
M

Meeshoo

Guest
Andrew

When Gavin gets up tomorrow can you ask him whether Rocks and Co will be selling coated Tanzanite please? Not heated, coated.

Ta
 

Milly

VIP Shopper
hi meeshoo good to see you on the forum and thanks for the post
 

Nessarose

Witchy woman...
Andrew

When Gavin gets up tomorrow can you ask him whether Rocks and Co will be selling coated Tanzanite please? Not heated, coated.

Ta

:9:
 

ARA

New member
Consider it done!:)
 

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