Testing on Animals

[RICKY S]

On QVC, it only seems that Liz Earle ever mentions that her products aren't tested on animals & they are BUAV approved.
This is the main reason we started using her stuff.
We buy all our cleaning items (W-U-L, Washing powder etc) from the Co-op supermarket cos they are also BUAV approved but the skin stuff is awful.
One of my O Levels was on the subject, so I can't use anything that has been tested. I still can't get some of the images out of my head.

My point is (sorry it took so long), is that can we assume that the likes of L'Occitane, Philosophy,Elemis etc are tested on animals?
Because surely it's a good selling point if they weren't, and they would be telling us about it.

 

[RedT]

AY has mentioned over the years that no brands sold on QVC are tested on animals. Some brands like Smashbox have the bunny symbol.

Bear in mind though that some products might contain animal derived ingredients and if like me, you're a strict veggie and don't support the fur industry, Dennis Basso has another line of real fur garments (he only sells the faux fur on QVC) so you might want to give him a miss...

 

[OscarFelixJake]

Elemis don't test on animals, they state this on all their products, as do A'kin

 

[RICKY S]

Elemis don't test on animals, they state this on all their products, as do A'kin

That's what I mean, I have never once heard Keeley? mention it, so we have never bought from them before.

Saying that though, they aren't listed on here:- http://www.buav.org/_lib/userfiles/files/Guides/BUAVA_LittleBook_OnlineVersion_Feb2011v2.pdf

L'Occitane are approved though, never heard Alexis mention it either.

 

[Nessarose]

Thanks for bringing this up Ricky, it's also a matter that is important to me. I find it strange that it's not highlighted more either, I was interested in some Ojon products and had no end of difficulty finding out their policy, even their own website was vague. In the end I resorted to the PETA website where I found a comprehensive list of the Goodies and Baddies. The link is below;

http://www.peta.org/living/beauty-and-personal-care/companies/default.aspx​

You can safely access this list without going through the PETA homepage which is not for the fainthearted. I too use Co-op cleaning products for the same reasons. Large branded companies are dreadful for testing and I simply can't condone that. Another aspect of testing is that a company may not test the final product on animals but buy in ingredients that have been tested. It really is a minefield and still needs clearer labelling universally.

This is just the tip of the iceberg of a very contentious and emotive subject...

 

[Sazza]

On QVC, it only seems that Liz Earle ever mentions that her products aren't tested on animals & they are BUAV approved.
This is the main reason we started using her stuff.
We buy all our cleaning items (W-U-L, Washing powder etc) from the Co-op supermarket cos they are also BUAV approved but the skin stuff is awful.
One of my O Levels was on the subject, so I can't use anything that has been tested. I still can't get some of the images out of my head.

My point is (sorry it took so long), is that can we assume that the likes of L'Occitane, Philosophy,Elemis etc are tested on animals?
Because surely it's a good selling point if they weren't, and they would be telling us about it.

Link to L'Occitane's policy
http://uk.loccitane.com/FO/Content/About/No-Animal-Testing.aspx

From Philosophy site

Question
does philosophy test on animals?
Answer
we absolutely do not conduct animal testing with philosophy products. we are fully committed to using alternatives to animal testing to ensure the safety of our products.

Question
are any of your products derived from animals?
Answer
for your reference, our product development team has confirmed that the only philosophy products containing ingredients derived from animals are as follows: pure grace shower cream (contains hydrolyzed milk protein), amazing grace shampoo, bath & shower gel (contains hydrolyzed milk protein) and kiss me lip balms (contain lanolin). all other philosophy products contain ingredients that are of botanical or synthetic origin.

 

[RICKY S]

Link to L'Occitane's policy
http://uk.loccitane.com/FO/Content/About/No-Animal-Testing.aspx

From Philosophy site

Question
does philosophy test on animals?
Answer
we absolutely do not conduct animal testing with philosophy products. we are fully committed to using alternatives to animal testing to ensure the safety of our products.

Question
are any of your products derived from animals?
Answer
for your reference, our product development team has confirmed that the only philosophy products containing ingredients derived from animals are as follows: pure grace shower cream (contains hydrolyzed milk protein), amazing grace shampoo, bath & shower gel (contains hydrolyzed milk protein) and kiss me lip balms (contain lanolin). all other philosophy products contain ingredients that are of botanical or synthetic origin.

Thanks Sazza, but this is misleading from Philosophy. They may not test on animals, but they may buy certain ingredients in that have been.

Nessarose is correct, it's a minefield.

The reason I started this thread was because since Liz Earle has been taken over by Avon (a company that I think does test on animals), I am wanting to change to another brand.
If a company isn't BUAV approved, I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

 

[vampyre]

QVC like many others jump straight through the loophole of the testing for ingredients being done by a third party, are you listening Shiseido?
Smashbox had 2 eyeshadow palettes created for PETA, lovely they were too.

 

[cupcake]

Saying you don't test on animals doesn't really mean much if you buy your ingredients from a supplier who does, or doesn't adhere to a fixed cut off date.

According to the BUAV, the 'ban on animal tested cosmetics in the EU is in jepodary - http://www.buav.org/our-campaigns/no-cruel-cosmetics
I really like their free booklet of cruelty free companies. Handy for your purse.

It's also worth checking out the cruelty free guide on the Uncaged website which lists supermarket toiletries and cleaning products - http://www.uncaged.co.uk/crueltyfree.htm. They also mention the Naturewatch Compassionate Shopping Guide on the page which is a good resource too.

Anyway, back to QVC ... it always surprised me that A'kin never made more of the fact that they are vegan. The dark haired lady who first brought the range to QVC used to mention it, but I've never heard the blonde rep mention it and QVC don't bring it to attention either. Spa Ritual nail polish is vegan too but I'm not sure that QVC sells the range any longer.

 

[donna255]

I remember long ago AY used to say none of the brands sold on QVC animal tested. But she also said that going back over time every ingredient used in beauty brands had at some point in their history.

PETA are American based and sometimes their list will differ from BUAV list.

Its actually very hard to get the bunny logo, they might not give it because an ingredient has been tested within a certain number of years.
Elemis use egg in their cleansers, so that could be the rest they have no bunny?
LUSH do not have it.
Estee Lauder do not test.
L'Oreal do and they own the Body Shop

Essie Nail Polish have the bunny logo.

Gatineau are own by Revlon since the early 90s.
Avon do not test, but no idea if they do via third party?

 

[JustBrowsingMadam]

I stick to the BUAV guide as:

There are a lot of brands that show a bunny symbol but you need to be careful as it's only the Bunny with Stars symbol that means that is BUAV approved. Also remember that different countries have their own approved criteria and symbols.

Not all brands that are completely cruelty free use any logo either!

Just because it is BUAV approved doesn't mean that there are no animal products used, for example L'Occitane use bee products, milk products and carmine (crushed insects). So not all BUAV products are animal product free and interesting not all vegan products are animal testing free e.g. MACs vegan line of make-up

Liz Earle and The Body Shop are on the BUAV list but they are now owned by companies that still carry out animal testing - they are marked on the BUAV list as such. Similarly Smashbox are approved by PETA but are owned by an animal testing company.

Estee Lauder which seems to own nearly all the ranges on QVC, state that they will end all testing by 2012 but considering that amount of money that they spend on animal testing I won't hold my breath!

Another thing is that the PETA list seems extraordinary long to me so before I use it I'm going to look more closely at their criteria.

I know that it’s really confusing & a right pain in the derriere, but I’m really glad that you’ve raised the question Ricky S as I think that a lot of people believe that they are being conscientious and are not because of companies deliberately misleading them.

I shall now get of my soap-box once I’ve asked has anyone tried the new BWC foundation yet?

 

[donna255]

Had a think.

Perhaps Elemis and L'Occitane do not feel they need to keep repeating their stance as Liz Earle does.

Regarding Shiseido, when they where on QVC before I actually emailed QVC and asked about animal testing. Took them awhile and got a reply saying they did not test, but had in the past. I then brought up the subject of them using third party testing. Again a few weeks past and I actually got a phone call this time. QVC had been in contact with Shiseido Japan and had to wait on a reply. They said they no longer tested and did not use third party testing either.

If a company does stop testing they should be given a pat on the back. But PETA etc once you are on their list they don't seem to up date to no longers tests etc.
Once you have been labeled you stay on the blacklist.

Proctor and Gamble own loads of brands not just house hold but cosmetic, they are well known for testing everything.

 

[Boycie]

Well done Ricky for starting this thread. If it gets everyone just thinking a bit more about the products they buy, you'll have done a great job. Thank you, and thank you to everyone who has contributed so far.

 

[KimP]

After reading this thread there is a lot more to the whole subject of animal testing than meets the eye. I just thought if it had a bunny on the container it would be OK.

 

[nailprincess]

I stick to the BUAV guide as:

There are a lot of brands that show a bunny symbol but you need to be careful as it's only the Bunny with Stars symbol that means that is BUAV approved. Also remember that different countries have their own approved criteria and symbols.

Just out of interest, what does it mean when its just the Bunny symbol, and not the one with stars? I have some LE somewhere and can't remember if its the Bunny or Bunny and stars on the jar.

 

[86fleur]

Leaping Bunny

The only way to tell if a product is truly free from animal testing is to buy from companies approved by the Humane Cosmetic Standard (HCS) or Leaping Bunny scheme. The Humane Cosmetic Standard is run by a coalition of animal protection groups, including the BUAV in the UK. It's the only internationally recognised scheme that enables consumers to easily identify and purchase products free from animal testing. All companies approved have regular independent audits which check their entire supply chains for animal testing. Look for the Leaping Bunny logo as seen on www.gocrueltyfree.org where you can also order or download a Little Book of Cruelty Free, and see all the companies that are free from animal testing.

The BUAV is also campaigning to end animal testing for all beauty products sold in Europe - you can sign their petition at www.nocruelcosmetics.org. Hope that helps! :sun:

 

[LionLady]

I did post on the LE Facebook page regarding my concerns in connection with the takeover by Avon as Avon were not on the Uncaged approved list. Despite making it clear that I was aware of Avon's own policy, they still just came back with a load of flannel and just repeated Avon's rather woolly policy.

The whole thing is a minefield and I am sure that guidelines, policies, etc. are intended to confuse the customer and to keep us buying. Animal rights organisations can also be confusing in their ethics as I found out when I did some research into PETA - I would find it difficult to support them although I think they have many worthwhile aims.

 

[donna255]

In next week's Radio Times dated 26th, interesting item and comment from PETA.

Dress designer for the King's Speech did not want to use real fox fur for the clothes. The royals are very into their fox fur it seems. Could not get a fake which looked right so contacted PETA. She was informed it was fine to use the real thing providing it had been dead for a long time. They say vintage fur is okay to wear it seems. So how old is vintage? 80s,70s,60s, or older?

 

[Magic]

M&S dishwasher tablets are not tested on animals, and quite a bit of own brand stuff from Superdrug is vegan now. It states it on the back of the bottles.

Sainsburys toilet cleaner is also vegan. I'm always on the look out for anything that is vegan and available on the high street.

 

[cupcake]

Just out of interest, what does it mean when its just the Bunny symbol, and not the one with stars? I have some LE somewhere and can't remember if its the Bunny or Bunny and stars on the jar.

LE products carry the BUAV symbol which is the leaping bunny with stars.