Should I say something here

[merryone]

For the past two years I've been going to a summer music festival with a close friend. First year we went we met up with a group of four ladies of whom my friend came to know on a forum much like this one, we had a fabulous time and vowed to do it again the following year and that we did, however, this time my mate decided to invite another forum member along, a fella ...I can't say I was 100% happy, but then she said it's ok, he's bringing his daughter (18) along and I did feel more comfortable in that idea. He was a nice fella, and his daughter pleasant too, but we seemed to split up into two separate groups most of the time. Me, my mate, the guy and his daughter and the other 4 ladies. Don't get me wrong we still had a great time but not as good as the first year and when we booked again I thought to myself I'm going to make a concerted effort to spend more time in the company of the ladies, it's a great line up this year and I've been looking forward to it...but then the proverbial Sh*t hit the fan!

My mate soon after last year's festival admitted she'd be having an affair with the fella (he's married btw), his daughter knew and was cool with it! A few months afterwards she told her partner of this affair and they split, though remained living together under the same roof and still do! Man lives a long way away and they don't see each other that often. Cutting a long story short, my mate decided that it would be the right thing to do to announce to the other ladies in our group that she and Mr X are in a relationship and that his marriage has been long dead but they're staying together for the sake of their 13 year old son (she's unaware of the affair of course) and that the daughter's cool with it!

Sadly it turns out that the other ladies are far from cool with it and have decided that they don't want to camp with us this year full stop. I feel really sad about this. My mate questioned this and they basically all said that they weren't really happy last year that she'd invited a bloke along to our girlie camp without asking anyone else whether they minded and that a couple of the ladies husbands were none to pleased when they found out! My mate shot back at them and pretty much said that it wasn't her fault that in their little worlds people cant mix with the opposite sex or go anywhere without their partners without them feeling jealous or threatened and accused them of being small town and small minded. Though one of them retorted and I quote " Well it did your partner a lot of good didn't it?!"
I have over simplified this and theres a lot more to it, but I really liked those ladies and feel sad that we're going to lose touch. Hopefully I'll see them at the festival and we can talk. So wish she hadn't told them until we got there, selfish I know but hey!

 

[mediastar]

That's a shame, I do hope you get to meet up with the friends and explain it wasn't your doing and you have a lovely time!

 

[donna255]

Your mate is selfish!

One the daughter may know about the affair the wife perhaps. But you can bet the couple will not split, he will not leave his wife. Your mate is a bit on the side you he sees now and then.

Personally, I would let mate and her shag man go do their own thing and you just go with the other women to the festival. Your mate used you simple as a cover, shows how much she really thinks of you.

 

[merryone]

Your mate is selfish!

One the daughter may know about the affair the wife perhaps. But you can bet the couple will not split, he will not leave his wife. Your mate is a bit on the side you he sees now and then.

Personally, I would let mate and her shag man go do their own thing and you just go with the other women to the festival. Your mate used you simple as a cover, shows how much she really thinks of you.

I think if the guy was going to leave his wife, then he would have done it - End of! The thirteen year old son is just an excuse. Last year when she told me about their budding relationship (she has known him online and she has met his whole family incl wife for some years) she said well the son's nearly 12 and is starting secondary school, now he's nearly 13 it's he's just started a new school, what'll be next puberty? exams? - It ain't gonna happen!

Don't think my mate is using me, but I do think she has only thought of herself in all this . Thing is we all travel to the venue together cause obviously my mate and I come from the same town and fella and daughter live nearer to our part of the country...The other ladies (two sets of friends) come from a far distance so in that respect would not be practical to try and travel with them. If I were to meet them, I'd have to completely fall out with my friend (whom I didn't mention has very fragile mental health). Like I said we were all gonna be camping together same as last year, but the revelation that she and the fella had embarked upon this "relationship" caused the other ladies to decide they didn't want us to camp with them. They reason they initially gave was that when my mate told them she individually messaged them but excluded one of this, when challenged she said it was because she had known the other ladies longer (3 were from her forum) and that she didn't mean any malice by it. At this stage we had agreed to meet up at the festival, but when my mate made a last ditch attempt to patch things up, she heard no response..so eventually she blew her stack and communication resumed but not in a good way. I added some words to which the ladies said not your fault, we'll be glad to see you there.
But Donna, you're advice is good, and whilst I know I should follow it, I definitely shall be having a chat with her when I'm off work in a couple of weeks and tell her carefully that I would like to spend some time with the others, and that I didn't appreciate being annexed to the tent with the guy's daughter even if it does have separate compartments! Obviously it makes sense and that I couldn't be expected to vacate every time they want to have a bit of rumpy pumpy..but it would have been nice for her to talk to me about this and perhaps offer to try and get another tent for me..thankfully I have got one I can borrow from another mate..but not the point really.
I actually feel for the chap's wife in this, 'cause it'll be hard enough when she finds out, but to discover that your own daughter's been implicit, there are no words! Think possibly this is the real reason why the other ladies decided they didn't want to camp with us!

 

[merryone]

Should have added that the man also has a few mental health issues due to a personal tragedy in his and his wife's life, my mate and he met on a music based forum and would chat for hours online into the wee small hours and have been doing for years, because of this she has said that whilst a physical relationship has only just started, they both realised that they have a powerful connection from the start. Knowing what the tragedy is, and I won't go into it, I would most definitely say that the most powerful connection is between the guy and his wife. The way I see it is - My mate has listened, and talked to him into the night, she met him and his family and they were attracted to each other (a common enough phenomena) and now they have acted upon this I can see nothing more than a sticky mess waiting for them at the end of everything. The wife didn't want to go to the festival last year because their son didn't want to go and the music was more her husband's thing and of course he's more mates with the group than she. She has trusted him and after 25 years of marriage why wouldn't she? My mate told everyone that their marriage has been "dead" for years, I can't quite see what she means by that, but she probably thinks she's no more than a catalyst in all this and is doing them all some kind of service! And as a teenage girl I don't think I would have been able to betray my own mother in such an awful way...but then should I judge? We've all made dodgy decisions in our lives whatever they may be. My mate is a good kind girl, but seems to jump from one bad situation to the next and I honestly believe she strives just to be happy and make others happy too. She likes to say that the others aren't looking at the bigger picture, but I feel that this is exactly what she needs to do. We need to talk!!!!

 

[iloveshopping]

She won't listen! She may even accuse or think to herself that you are narrow minded like other ladies. She has already burnt her bridges with her own partner and is looking towards the other relationship

 

[merryone]

She won't listen! She may even accuse or think to herself that you are narrow minded like other ladies. She has already burnt her bridges with her own partner and is looking towards the other relationship

She's still living with her ex partner..neither of them can afford to move out and get separate places. Her ex got to keep the bedroom 'cause it was him who was shat upon so to speak, and he works early mornings and needs a proper nights sleep, wheras my mate doesn't have a full time job and is pretty much on a zero hours contract and works evenings. She's on the sofa bed in her front room. She can call me what she likes, but she does need to know that she needs to take a step back and perhaps in future not rush headlong into decisions that affect more than one person (ie herself) even if it is something as simple as inviting people on holiday without first consulting the other people who are coming. Like I say she is a good friend of mine and I'm not gonna just say look mate, you've been really selfish here and I'm gonna camp with the other ladies, as much as I'd probably have heaps more fun camping with the other ladies. She feels wronged by them as she says "all I have done has been honest!" Sometimes honesty isn't always the best policy and in this case she may have been better off telling the lady that she hadn't included in the original online revelation re her extra marital relations, oooh sorry I thought I had added you to the conversation, not to try and justify it by saying that she'd known the others longer because to me that just reiterates what the lady first thought, and that's that her opinion doesn't matter! In one subsequent conversation she cited the shootings in Orlando, saying how things need to be put into context and how they needed to see the bigger picture, to which one of the ladies told her that she was on her way to a memorial vigil in London that's why she hadn't replied to her online outpourings the previous night!!!!!....I can't see us falling out over this but I feel that I do need to say something!

 

[mediastar]

She's in a fool's paradise, love like this has no real foundation and he is in a position where all around him are memories of his family (I assume) tragedy, so how much easier to run to where there aren't. What confuses me in all this is why the daughter is colluding in deceiving the mother. When/if she grows up, she may live to regret the pain she is causing her mum.

 

[Lilo Lil]

My SIL has been waiting since 1970 for her 'friend' to leave his wife ...

 

[merryone]

She's in a fool's paradise, love like this has no real foundation and he is in a position where all around him are memories of his family (I assume) tragedy, so how much easier to run to where there aren't. What confuses me in all this is why the daughter is colluding in deceiving the mother. When/if she grows up, she may live to regret the pain she is causing her mum.

Obviously I don't know the family, but from what small information I've gathered this is what I believe has happened. After the tragic event that hit the family he went to pieces finding it very difficult to cope, found it difficult to leave the house at times, his work, his social life, his ability to sleep at night, hence long online chats with my friend (a notorious insomniac) lots of kind words and encouragement from her no doubt, understanding,empathy etc. Eventually she was invited up to stay with him and his family, and by all accounts they were invited down to see her. From what I've been told by my friend is that his wife is grumpy, frumpy and lumpy, doesn't like the same music as them. Anyway I surmise in all this that she (his wife) has been affected by this tragedy differently but has had to get on with it for the sake of the kids and one can imagine that her daughter's witnessed her saying such things as "For Gods sake Mike (not real name) pull yourself together" that sort of thing and maybe hasn't wanted or perhaps hasn't been able to empathise with the mental state of his mind, and from what I can gather, the daughter has always been a "daddy's girl" (a common enough phenomena). Along comes my friend who's a bit younger than her mum, looks and dresses really cool, makes her dad seem really happy. This is obviously an extremely vague and potted summary, and I know this is an absolute cliche - but nobody really knows what goes on behind closed doors!

Having said this, I am still surprised that a daughter could be so implicit in deceiving her own mother despite her being more close to her father - I just think she is overwhelmed by the positive influence my friend has had upon his mental health and wellbeing and perhaps has become a bit blinded by it all. Yes, I would utterly agree that my friend is in a "fool's paradise" and the fact that they live at some distance from one another, they can't actually see each other without it involving a huge amount of duplicity from him eg, telling his wife that he's off on a course through his workplace, that sort of thing. It doesn't bode well for anybody involved, and as I mentioned before my friend's mental health is very fragile and I'm worried for her too!

 

[mediastar]

Totally agree with what you have said there!

 

[loveallthingsitalian]

I know it is perhaps a bit of a sweeping statement but I have always believed if someone cheats on their partner with you it is only a matter of before they cheat on you too. Sure you would never be comfortable every "work course/overtime/boys night out" they went to knowing that these were the exact excuses that were used when they were cheating with you.

At a total loss regarding the daughters attitude. Maybe being a daddy's girl she feels this secret makes her even more special but surprised that she wants a new squeeze taking attention from her.

 

[Weathergirl]

For anyone with an understanding of attachment theory, the daughter probably has significant attachment problems with her mother.

 

[Akimbo]

Hi Suz, I don't have anything useful to add but the scenario is awkward when a group of friends arrange an event and one brings a partner it disrupts the dynamics of the group. When I met my husband I was married and he was living with his long-term partner; we've been together 25 years and completely trust each other; but I'd agree it's a minefield for potential jealousy and mistrust if the relationship isn't competely balanced; where one part is more needy or insecure. It also helped that we didn't already have kids. I doubt he'll leave his wife and in all likelyhood is still sleeping with her regardless of what he's told your friend. It'll all end in tears and a hot mess I reckon.

Then it got me thinking of the Julia Davis series "Camping" (it's on Sky Atlantic on demand) (Julia Davis also wrote Nighty Night so be warned it contains adult humour) :mysmilie_59:

 

[merryone]

Hi Suz, I don't have anything useful to add but the scenario is awkward when a group of friends arrange an event and one brings a partner it disrupts the dynamics of the group. When I met my husband I was married and he was living with his long-term partner; we've been together 25 years and completely trust each other; but I'd agree it's a minefield for potential jealousy and mistrust if the relationship isn't competely balanced; where one part is more needy or insecure. It also helped that we didn't already have kids. I doubt he'll leave his wife and in all likelyhood is still sleeping with her regardless of what he's told your friend. It'll all end in tears and a hot mess I reckon.

Then it got me thinking of the Julia Davis series "Camping" (it's on Sky Atlantic on demand) (Julia Davis also wrote Nighty Night so be warned it contains adult humour) :mysmilie_59:

Don't think it'd even been so bad had he been her actual partner as opposed to a bloke she's having an extra marital relationship with. I'm not gonna sit in judgement as I too was married when I met my husband and I had a very brief fling with him and pretty much told my husband as soon as, and my husband now was not married or in a relationship, so slightly less messy! I think this scenario has caused problems on a number of levels. Firstly the lack of communication between her and the rest of the party ie inviting another person/s to join us with absolutely no consultation...but everybody just got on with it. Now of course she's admitted that "they're at it" I think it's the case of the other girls not really approving, and do not feel right about camping with a guy who's cheating on his wife in full view of his own daughter (even though she's cool with it) and perhaps camping with a daughter who's not showing any kind of loyalty towards her own mother. Now of course so much anger has passed between the two sides, it seems there's no going back. I have to agree with what others have been saying and that is that she is being rather selfish. I spoke to her today and mentioned my tent, and she said quite angrily..."I don't know why you see the need to buy or borrow another tent"..as I am not seeing her properly till next week ...I laughingly said...well I've seen a really cheap one and it's pink! But I am going to tell her that I didn't really appreciate being effectively kicked out of the tent that we have shared for the last two times and just told I'm going to share a tent with her fella's daughter! Ok, of course they're going to getting up to all sort of stuff, and it would be inappropriate for her to say..."Oh can you go out for a walk...we want a sh*g!" but she could have said "Look Suz, for obvious reasons I'm going to want to share a tent with Mike this year, but would you mind sharing with Amy or shall I try and get a spare tent for you"...No I was just told!!!

 

[Akimbo]

Talking more seriously you've highlighted exactly what's unsettling about the set up; it's causing you to spend time and energy trying to avoid any nastiness, and to minimise her discomfort. The other ladies whose company you've enjoyed in previous years are more than uncomfortable and you won't have the same camaraderie with them as a result. It sounds as though the fun and friendships of that first year have been undermined by her bringing the bloke and then admitting he was more than just a friend, which is a real shame. But I'm not sure what the answer is, or how to reposition the "affair" into the background so that you can just have a laugh and enjoy the music. It sounds as though she's on the defensive which might account for the tent comment. It sounds as though you're trying not to be judgemental but a guilt response is making her hyper-sensitive to anything that's remotely related to him being there. It's a shame all round.

Bottom line she has been and still is being a bit selfish. Can you contact the group of ladies other than through your mate? You could at least arrange to meet up and spend a bit of time with them (while there's fornicatin' occuring back at the tent maybe!). It's a blummin shame that it's impacting everyone's enjoyment of the festival before you even get there!

I don't get the daughter knowing and not the wife or son; very odd! If she were younger it could be regarded as mildly abusive; I have very close experience of a parent manipulating a child to "hate" the other parent, and this keeping secrets sounds unhealthy and manipulative. Or it's a pack of lies and the wife and son are buried under the patio.

Sorry still not really offering a solution.

 

[merryone]

I'm still friends with the other ladies on Facebook, my friend and partner have been "excommunicated" - As childish as it sounds, I can't say that I blame them after the accusations of small mindedness and downright rudeness they suffered at her hand. I talk to them regularly on Facebook but not about this situation, I feel it would be disloyal to do so behind my friend's back...However, we will bump into them and I shall make sure that I spend some time with them!

 

[mediastar]

I am glad you still have the friendships of the other girls, as for your other "friend", she doesn't sound like much of a friend to be honest. You did say she has some mental health issues, so some leeway, maybe.

 

[merryone]

Going to the festival this Friday...so hopefully we'll all have a great time! I did eventually get to speak to my mate and I was open and honest with her and told her as tactfully as I could that I did rather understand where the other ladies in the group were coming from, and that I was hoping to spend a little time when we get there if it works out to be possible. We also talked about her relationship with Mike. She told me the same old story as to how he's going to find the right time to tell his wife, and how it's tricky with the son just having started secondary school etc...My response to that was, although there's never a good time to tell someone you've been cheating on them/leaving them, there are times which perhaps might be better...obviously not at Christmas, but probably better when the son hasn't got to the age where he could possibly turn to drink to down his sorrows - I say this through experience as my son's dad's father had been having an affair for years and decided to wait until the kids had left school. Dave took it extremely badly and unfortunately this was the first step into his life of alcoholism which eventually caused his death. An extreme example I know, and I know every person is different but, perhaps if it had all come out when he was younger and still at school he might have coped better and use different mechanisms to come to terms with it and no doubt would have had access to more support should he have needed it who knows?
Anyway she has now told me that he does intend to tell his wife soon after he returns from the festival, and that he's already looked at places he can afford to rent and that he has a mate who's prepared to let him lodge in his spare room for as long as he needs it. This means that he can still go to work, and see his kids, eventually he intends to relocate to Brighton once he's found a job in this area or thereabouts. He shouldn't have too much trouble as he has a specialist job. Guess only time will tell!

 

[mediastar]

Hope you manage to have a really good time. And don't end up feeling too green and hairy (like a gooseberry!)