My motivation

[aqua]

In a way I agree.

However, many product advertisements on TV receive upheld complaints, and the protocol is to remove the ad in its present form, which Sit-Up have consistently done. So compliance is met.

The issue the ASA have is that due to to relentless pestering by a small number they feel their responses are not sufficient to conclude the situation, and so they feel the need to refer to Ofcom in order to confirm that they have delt with each minor infringement sufficiently.

You are incorrect, moreover you do not understand the process.
You seem to think that if a complaint is upheld for,say, one brand of watch they can then they can make similar claims for another brand with impunity on the basis that the actual product has changed and therefore compliance has been met.
The fact is that the company has consistently breached the BCAP code particularly with regard to the following clauses;
3.1 misleading advertising
3.9 substantiation
3.12 exaggeration
3.18 price
It is for the continuous and persistent flouting of these aspects of the code that the matter has been referred to Ofcom.
In view of this I don't consider that your intervention is either well informed or properly thought through.

 

[Moet&muffins]

I am very sorry for your loss, having had a devastated loss myself. However I feel mentioning
Mike's name is totally irrelevant as He only joined Bid just over a year ago.

 

[deedee]

You make a fair argument, it might have been a mistake. The problem we have here is that I think it's fair to say this particular presenter makes an awful lot of mistakes and it's noticeable that his mistakes tend to be 'in Bid's favour', for want of a better term. And it cannot be due to lack of experience can it?

On Friday night he claimed a gold necklace of 1.33 grams of 9ct gold was just short of 2 grams without once, not once, stating the actual gram weight. When they don't ever bother to place on screen what the gold gram weight is you can surely see the problem here?

And that is far from untypical, his sales of gold plated jewellery are often appalling. Maybe that might explain why so many complaints are in relation to sales on Bid? He dosen't appear on Price Drop or Bid Plus does he? (I don't think he does anyway).

By the way, I couldn't help but notice you said 'we argue is an acceptable mistake' :wink:

Good point Wirral, mistakes happen but when they happen repeatedly with no effort to address them it then becomes non compliance.
A mistake is understandable, presenters have an awful lot of information to remember and pass on to the viewer but there are people behind the scenes supporting, directing, producing and managing the presenter so for none of them to address it and correct the presenter means that 'mistake' then becomes knowingly misleading.

As I said before, clearly nothingtodowithbid has somethingtodowithbid!

 

[Wirral70]

Good point Wirral, mistakes happen but when they happen repeatedly with no effort to address them it then becomes non compliance.
A mistake is understandable, presenters have an awful lot of information to remember and pass on to the viewer but there are people behind the scenes supporting, directing, producing and managing the presenter so for none of them to address it and correct the presenter means that 'mistake' then becomes knowingly misleading.

As I said before, clearly nothingtodowithbid has somethingtodowithbid!

Indeed deedee, is it mistake after mistake or deliberate? How do we know?

What about the Sterling Silver Tanzanite Pendant on Thursday? Was it 0.09 cts or 0.23 cts?

How are we meant to know?

 

[nothingtodowithbid]

but clearly you are somethingtodowithbid so what connection do you have to the company?

I post on this forum with the same anonymity as you all do.

 

[PJ.]

I am very sorry for your loss, having had a devastated loss myself. However I feel mentioning
Mike's name is totally irrelevant as He only joined Bid just over a year ago.

Thank you.



You are right but how long was he there the first time he was with bid?

 

[PJ.]

I post on this forum with the same anonymity as you all do.

That's right everyone has the right to be anonymous. You shouldn't however claim you are on thing when all the evidence contradicts this.

PJ

 

[nothingtodowithbid]

You make a fair argument, it might have been a mistake. The problem we have here is that I think it's fair to say this particular presenter makes an awful lot of mistakes and it's noticeable that his mistakes tend to be 'in Bid's favour', for want of a better term. And it cannot be due to lack of experience can it?

On Friday night he claimed a gold necklace of 1.33 grams of 9ct gold was just short of 2 grams without once, not once, stating the actual gram weight. When they don't ever bother to place on screen what the gold gram weight is you can surely see the problem here?

And that is far from untypical, his sales of gold plated jewellery are often appalling. Maybe that might explain why so many complaints are in relation to sales on Bid? He dosen't appear on Price Drop or Bid Plus does he? (I don't think he does anyway).

By the way, I couldn't help but notice you said 'we argue is an acceptable mistake' :wink:

The Royal 'we', of course.

Again I can only express my opinion that Sit-up are boisterous in their aim to confirm to all Ofcom regulation, I'm sure that they would be crazy not to.

 

[Wirral70]

The Royal 'we', of course.

Again I can only express my opinion that Sit-up are boisterous in their aim to confirm to all Ofcom regulation, I'm sure that they would be crazy not to.

Well I would like to think so, genuinely. I hope you read the examples of possible further mistakes I posted that have occurred just this week. I can assure you that what I posted is fact. I would never make anything up, i'm not that stupid (I hope!). I think a fair minded person would agree it isn't good, in fact it's far from good.

For balance Peter sold a gold necklace this evening and he was fine, he stated it's gram weight (well, not exactly but his 'nearly' figure was well within reason this time). That's all we want, clarity and transparency. It has sadly been greatly lacking at times over the last couple of years.

Why they don't just put the details on screen is beyond me, it would avoid a lot of problems.

 

[deedee]

I post on this forum with the same anonymity as you all do.

oh yes absolutely you do but the difference being I will willingly tell people who and what I am as I have nothing to hide

 

[Paul_s]

Second paragraph of this Ofcom report in 2004... very interesting!

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/consultations/reg_broad_ad/responses/sit-upResponse.pdf

What the hell happened?

 

[PJ.]

Can you not see our annoyance that seemingly everyday there is a new member on this forum who come on this site just to defend bid, well I say defend bid, it is more like trying to discredit members rather than making valid arguments back. I have been and will be wrong and am always pleased when someone changes my world view on something that is the only way I can grow as a human being. All I seem to get is nothing of the sort. How about rather than hiding in see through fake names get someone from bid, much like the Bennett's do from Gems and lets have a debate. I promise I will listen and have a very open mind.

PJ

 

[Wirral70]

Second paragraph of this Ofcom report in 2004... very interesting!

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/consultations/reg_broad_ad/responses/sit-upResponse.pdf

What the hell happened?

Flextech (which subsequently became a division of Virgin Media) part and then fully owned the channels back then and not the current owners Aurelius, who purchased Sit-Up in 2009.

Maybe that is pertinent?

 

[merryone]

Do you know what gets me? Is those who come on here and make comments such as if you don't tow the party line etc, then you'll be shouted down. Well of course you will I'm afraid, one can clearly see that 99.9% of posters on the bid up forum would like to see a return to the good old days, and hate the idea of vulnerable people being ripped off and lied to. Fair enough, if that sort of thing floats your boat, you have every right to say so, but prepare to be disagreed with....I wouldn't walk into a local football pub wearing the opposition's colours - right or wrong, I'd expect a little grief!

 

[paldy]

Do you know what gets me? Is those who come on here and make comments such as if you don't tow the party line etc, then you'll be shouted down. Well of course you will I'm afraid, one can clearly see that 99.9% of posters on the bid up forum would like to see a return to the good old days, and hate the idea of vulnerable people being ripped off and lied to. Fair enough, if that sort of thing floats your boat, you have every right to say so, but prepare to be disagreed with....I wouldn't walk into a local football pub wearing the opposition's colours - right or wrong, I'd expect a little grief!

Exactly. While I disagree with the attacks on presenters that I would consider personal, everyone can express their opinion.It's also unfair to expect people to simply ignore posts made just because others have the same opinion as you.

 

[Hillary]

Do you know what gets me? Is those who come on here and make comments such as if you don't tow the party line etc, then you'll be shouted down. Well of course you will I'm afraid, one can clearly see that 99.9% of posters on the bid up forum would like to see a return to the good old days, and hate the idea of vulnerable people being ripped off and lied to. Fair enough, if that sort of thing floats your boat, you have every right to say so, but prepare to be disagreed with....I wouldn't walk into a local football pub wearing the opposition's colours - right or wrong, I'd expect a little grief!

It's not just the vulnerable is it? I've seen posters on here taken in by the slick smile and I'm your friend routine of some salespeople while selling pound shop products at high-end prices, and defend them! .

 

[merryone]

Exactly. While I disagree with the attacks on presenters that I would consider personal, everyone can express their opinion.It's also unfair to expect people to simply ignore posts made just because others have the same opinion as you.

Sure, everybody must be able to express their own opinion on this forum, however if my opinions differed from that of the majority, I'd naturally expect to have them disagreed with, nothing to do with any rule that says you have to "tow the party line". It may also be unfair to dismiss every single opposing opinion as the result of "trolling" - but most of us on here find it very difficult to see how some of the shady sales techniques and tactics that Bid have adopted over the past year or so can be defended, especially in this case with one of our posters - PJ who has seen first hand what a detrimental effect this has caused.
- Again this is going to sound unfair, but some (not all), shall we call them "pro-bid" posters? have come on here in text book troll style with their insults and inflamatory comments that tbh would be no match for one of Bid's finest fireblankets (which incidentally would have prevented the presenter's grandmother from burning herself and her kitchen and being robbed whilst she was in A&E having her wounds seen to!) - and people wonder why we're cynical (and angry)?!

Can totally understand someone sticking up for a mate, and trying to defend ones own actions is understandable too, but if my opinion differed from the majority, I'd expect to meet some opposition, and if I came onto a forum clearly trying to cause bad feeling, then I'd also expect to be ignored. Hopefully those who genuinely oppose popular opinion will support their beliefs with a valid and viable argument, sadly, I've not heard one yet - But that's only my opinion, feel free to disagree with it!

 

[PJ.]

If only there was a bid TV forum we could go on. I would come up with really clever names like nothingtodowithshoppingtelly.com and Peanuts&Jelly

That's what annoys me the fact that they take us for idiots who won't see through the name. This if nothing else does prove they are bid staff.


PJ

 

[Wirral70]

If only there was a bid TV forum we could go on. I would come up with really clever names like nothingtodowithshoppingtelly.com and Peanuts&Jelly

That's what annoys me the fact that they take us for idiots who won't see through the name. This if nothing else does prove they are bid staff.


PJ

To be honest PJ apart from the insults early on in the thread I feel nothingtodowithbid posted well, even though I fundamentally disagree with his/her point of view. I had no right to call the poster a troll, and for that I apologise.

However, what I don't think nothingtodowithbid understand is the perception that Sit Up has created for itself by all the misleading nonsense, and that is their own fault and is certainly not something a few people on here have invented. Just take 'Laurelle' as an example. We know Peter Sherlock knows this brand inside out because:-

1. He has been involved in bringing it to Bid as part of the buying team.
2. He is even involved in creating a fragrance for them.

In my opinion there has been some nonsense touted about this brand, much of which has been revealed on here. However, what I find completely unforgivable is when Peter Sherlock tells us to look at the Laurelle website to compare their prices to those of the Sit Up's channels when I suspect he knows full well those prices mean nothing and are probably there as a useful reference point for companies like Sit Up who resell their products. Personally I have never, ever seen evidence of any reseller of Laurelle that sells their products for anywhere near those prices, not one.

It is that kind of thing that has added to the perception that, rightly or wrongly, they are 'at it', for want of a better phrase.

 

[newtobid]

Do you know what gets me? Is those who come on here and make comments such as if you don't tow the party line etc, then you'll be shouted down. Well of course you will I'm afraid, one can clearly see that 99.9% of posters on the bid up forum would like to see a return to the good old days, and hate the idea of vulnerable people being ripped off and lied to. Fair enough, if that sort of thing floats your boat, you have every right to say so, but prepare to be disagreed with....I wouldn't walk into a local football pub wearing the opposition's colours - right or wrong, I'd expect a little grief!

please not the mention of the good "old days" again

from what i can garner watching old clips and before many from this forum reported the channels to the asa the standards were miles lower not just a bit miles

yes there was more "banter" and the shows were probably funnier but you can watch 20 minute clips online from 2,3 or 10 years ago were the p +p and/or call charge are not mentioned once and products are wildly overstated for what they were.

this has only changed (with most presenters) since bid have realised this is actually quite serious and needs to change