Diamonds(?)

[stratobuddy]

Spot on. One of the key things that gives diamonds its price tag is its perceived rarity.

Anything created in a lab can be made in endless amounts - so they have no rarity appeal at all.

I think the only reason people buy them is because marketing people have brainwashed people into thinking "they're as good as the real thing - but cheaper".

They're actually quite pointless really.

I can't really agree with that. If they are identical to diamonds and can't be told apart, then it is the natural diamonds that are over-rated. I believe lab diamonds have to me marked as such, and that's why they don't hold their value. There is nothing intrinsically valuable in a "real" diamond, it is just a snobbery thing.

So if you like the appearance of a brilliant-cut diamond, it makes no difference whatsoever whether it is real or lab.

It's a bit like real fur, which is now completely out of fashion, and probably synthetic fur is just as good anyway.

 

[AndyW]

Snobbery is a bit strong; preference perhaps. The analogy with the fur trade is a bit off kilter too - a better comparison might be GMO vs natural, for example.

No product has an intrinsic value - that's meaningless marketing phrasing. What does give something any form of value is, as was said, a perception of rarity. In that sense, mined earth diamonds are more valuable than lab diamonds. As the production costs of synthetic diamonds drops faster, so will any meaningful comparison of value with natural diamonds. No different to synthetic sapphires and rubies.

 

[TheManWithNoName]

I can't really agree with that. If they are identical to diamonds and can't be told apart, then it is the natural diamonds that are over-rated. I believe lab diamonds have to me marked as such, and that's why they don't hold their value. There is nothing intrinsically valuable in a "real" diamond, it is just a snobbery thing.

So if you like the appearance of a brilliant-cut diamond, it makes no difference whatsoever whether it is real or lab.

It's a bit like real fur, which is now completely out of fashion, and probably synthetic fur is just as good anyway.

I don't want gemstones solely for the appearance.

I want them because they're natural genuine gemstones with a uniqueness, history and story behind them.

If I wanted something solely on appearance, I may as well just have a faceted sparkly piece of glass.

 

[stratobuddy]

I don't want gemstones solely for the appearance.

I want them because they're natural genuine gemstones with a uniqueness, history and story behind them.

If I wanted something solely on appearance, I may as well just have a faceted sparkly piece of glass.

What would you choose if I offered you ONE of 2 round brillant cut 1ct diamonds, identical, but one natural and one lab?

Would you take one (not knowing which was which) or refuse to take any?

 

[stratobuddy]

What would you choose if I offered you ONE of 2 round brillant cut 1ct diamonds, identical, but one natural and one lab?

Would you take one (not knowing which was which) or refuse to take any?

I forgot to say, if you choose to take one, you will never find out which one you have (real or lab).

 

[TheManWithNoName]

What would you choose if I offered you ONE of 2 round brillant cut 1ct diamonds, identical, but one natural and one lab?

Would you take one (not knowing which was which) or refuse to take any?

Like I said, I collect genuine gemstones - I'm not interested in fakes. If I don't know which is which, then I'm not interested in either.

 

[AndyW]

Now that TheManWithNoName has answered, I will vote the same way as he has done (not that he needs any affirmation!).

Collecting minerals and gemstones shouldn't be conflated with wearing jewellery; the motivation is quite different (and I mean specifically "wearing", not collecting - which is also quite different). Quartz is the most common mineral in all its forms but I could decide to collect just amethysts. There are lots of natural varieties, all with very distinct and beautiful characteristics produced by nature - but only one synthetic version.

As to round brilliant (mentioned specifically twice)? It could be said to be the most boring cut. Mathematical in origin and infinitely replicated by machine, obviously a boon to a profit-seeking industry. You quite often see antique jewellery specialists expressing a firm preference for pre-1950s cuts.

 

[ianrobo111]

Like I said, I collect genuine gemstones - I'm not interested in fakes. If I don't know which is which, then I'm not interested in either.

I am presuming if as discussed the fakes are nearly as much as the real ones then someone is making a lot of cash from fakes ... If you want a fake to look like a diamond in your social circles, then great. But jeez don;t pay the level of real ones ..

 

[stratobuddy]

I am presuming if as discussed the fakes are nearly as much as the real ones then someone is making a lot of cash from fakes ... If you want a fake to look like a diamond in your social circles, then great. But jeez don;t pay the level of real ones ..

The cost of making them used to be more than buying real ones, but the price has been dropping rapidly. I would love to know how much it actually cost to make them. They will still need cutting, of course.

 

[stratobuddy]

...... As to round brilliant (mentioned specifically twice)? It could be said to be the most boring cut. Mathematical in origin .....

I like symmetry. At one time, I knew all the terms for the parts of a cut diamond, and could accurately draw a round brilliant cut showing all the facets.

I own a 10,000 ct round brilliant-cut CZ (the weight is something like that, can't quite remember) and it will only just fit in my palm. It came in a wooden display box with a glass lid. I believe it is fairly exclusive. It is not glass, it is genuine QVC Diamonique CZ. Almost as rare as the QVC crown!!!

 

[TheManWithNoName]

The cost of making them used to be more than buying real ones, but the price has been dropping rapidly.

Yes, because those early on were contributing to the cost of the research and development of them. Once those costs are recovered by the industry, the price drops.

That's nothing new - it's how most industries work.

It's particularly common in the pharmaceutical industry. When a drug is new to the market, the costs are extortionate - but once the developers have recovered their cost, the cost of the drug drops. Paracetamol tablets cost pennies now (literally - 39p a box) - whereas years ago, theyw ere expensive. A box of Amoxicillin anti-biotics costs the NHS about £1.80 now. They cost thousands when they were first released.

 

[TheManWithNoName]

I like symmetry. At one time, I knew all the terms for the parts of a cut diamond, and could accurately draw a round brilliant cut showing all the facets.

I own a 10,000 ct round brilliant-cut CZ (the weight is something like that, can't quite remember) and it will only just fit in my palm. It came in a wooden display box with a glass lid. I believe it is fairly exclusive. It is not glass, it is genuine QVC Diamonique CZ. Almost as rare as the QVC crown!!!

There is no such thing as 'genuine CZ'. It's man-made. The 'genuine' think is Zircon - and actual proper gemstone.

As for being 'fairly exclusive' - that is simply down to its size. However, as its synthetic, there is absolutely nothing to stop anyone from mass producing more whenever they like.

 

[stratobuddy]

There is no such thing as 'genuine CZ'. It's man-made. The 'genuine' think is Zircon - and actual proper gemstone.

As for being 'fairly exclusive' - that is simply down to its size. However, as its synthetic, there is absolutely nothing to stop anyone from mass producing more whenever they like.

It is genuine man-made cubic zirconium then

 

[ianrobo111]

Yes, because those early on were contributing to the cost of the research and development of them. Once those costs are recovered by the industry, the price drops.

That's nothing new - it's how most industries work.

It's particularly common in the pharmaceutical industry. When a drug is new to the market, the costs are extortionate - but once the developers have recovered their cost, the cost of the drug drops. Paracetamol tablets cost pennies now (literally - 39p a box) - whereas years ago, theyw ere expensive. A box of Amoxicillin anti-biotics costs the NHS about £1.80 now. They cost thousands when they were first released.

it should be part of general economics really but the con is the sell of course and pretending they are like real for the same money

 

[TheManWithNoName]

it should be part of general economics really but the con is the sell of course and pretending they are like real for the same money

Yep, and the problem is, people fall for it.

It would be interesting to see how owners of synthetic diamonds get on should they suffer the misfortune of suffering a house fire or theft and need to claim on their house insurance.

Insurers will pay for real diamonds because they know that a replacement is equally expensive - but would they pay thousands for a replacement synthetic diamond when they know that a replacement can be made in a lab for pennies? I suspect they'd try to offer 'actual' worth rather than 'replacement worth / retail worth'.

 

[Vienna]

Scrolling through my facebook page the other day I saw an advert for "salt and pepper" diamond engagement rings. Out of curiosity I clicked on the jewellers facebook page and she was showing a few of her latest rings. They looked horrible. Dull looking diamonds with lots of black dots in them, obviously where the sale and pepper name comes from. They weren`t cheap either and I can`t imagine why anybody would want to buy them because for a similar price you could buy a much nicer gemstone ring or a diamond ring made with smaller but better clarity/colour diamonds.
As for lab diamonds, I think newly engaged couples may buy them because it looks as if you get more bling for your bucks. When I was newly engaged back in the 1970`s I never thought how much my ring may or may not sell for or be worth in the future. When you`re young (-ish) and in love you just love to flaunt the ring you`ve got. Though I do think the Americans are big on regular upgrading their rings and many jewellers offer to buy a ring back for the price you paid as long as you`re upgrading to a bigger or more expensive one.
I have a few pieces of jewellery I had custom made for me several years ago from an American website called Diamond by Lauren and they offer the upgrade facility too. I wouldn`t think of upgrading anything I already own because I have an emotional attachment to each item.
To me, jewellery is for pleasure not investment and I have pieces worth just a few pounds and pieces worth much more but each is just as cherished as the other. Unless you can afford custom made top notch bling with above excellent stones and workmanship, or items with provenance such as once belonging to Liz Taylor or the Duchess of Windsor or some other famous person, then your average person`s bling stash will rarely reap great rewards in the resale market.

 

[AndyW]

It is genuine man-made cubic zirconium then

It is, although "man-made" and "cubic zirconium" is tautological

 

[AndyW]

it should be part of general economics really but the con is the sell of course and pretending they are like real for the same money

Absolutely. "...the con is the sell..." is bang on.

I was thinking about one of your other comments and trying to work out why you'd bother with the lab diamond market as it stands. One of the most high profile merchants hawking these right now is Pandora. Surely this can only be a "get in, get rich, get out" strategy?

 

[AndyW]

Scrolling through my facebook page the other day I saw an advert for "salt and pepper" diamond engagement rings. Out of curiosity I clicked on the jewellers facebook page and she was showing a few of her latest rings. They looked horrible. Dull looking diamonds with lots of black dots in them, obviously where the sale and pepper name comes from. They weren`t cheap either and I can`t imagine why anybody would want to buy them because for a similar price you could buy a much nicer gemstone ring or a diamond ring made with smaller but better clarity/colour diamonds.
As for lab diamonds, I think newly engaged couples may buy them because it looks as if you get more bling for your bucks. When I was newly engaged back in the 1970`s I never thought how much my ring may or may not sell for or be worth in the future. When you`re young (-ish) and in love you just love to flaunt the ring you`ve got. Though I do think the Americans are big on regular upgrading their rings and many jewellers offer to buy a ring back for the price you paid as long as you`re upgrading to a bigger or more expensive one.
I have a few pieces of jewellery I had custom made for me several years ago from an American website called Diamond by Lauren and they offer the upgrade facility too. I wouldn`t think of upgrading anything I already own because I have an emotional attachment to each item.
To me, jewellery is for pleasure not investment and I have pieces worth just a few pounds and pieces worth much more but each is just as cherished as the other. Unless you can afford custom made top notch bling with above excellent stones and workmanship, or items with provenance such as once belonging to Liz Taylor or the Duchess of Windsor or some other famous person, then your average person`s bling stash will rarely reap great rewards in the resale market.

Totally. I have a ring, given to me as a present. It's marked "925" but I have my doubts. The "stone" is nothing of the kind - absolutely certain it's glass. But would I sell it? No, not ever. I wear it proudly because of who gave it to me. It wasn't a thoughtless gift either on their part. All of that makes it truly intrinsically valuable. To me.

 

[Rose de France]

I have one salt-and-pepper diamond ring from Gemporia. The stones are grey but they shine like crazy. No fire at all, but the luster is perfect. This ring is truly eye-catching, especially in artificial light.

Maybe it's just my sample.

This is the ring I'm talking about:

1/2ct Salt & Pepper Diamond Sterling Silver Ring

1/2ct Salt & Pepper Diamond Sterling Silver Ring

www.gemporia.com