Treatments - now clearer?

[SnowMoon]

I have noticed recently that Gemporia are now stating treatments - in full - on their graphics. In the past when an item was shown it said "F" or "I" and you had to be able to look at their treatment page online or call and ask the centre what that letter meant. If you even realised it was a treatment. Now they are state "filled" or "coated" or "irradiated". I think this is a good thing and a step forward but I can't imagine Gemporia did it of their own free will. I would like to think they did, but I wonder if someone twisted their arm? Whichever, it's a bit of progress towards more honesty and transparency and it is good to see.

 

[MrMarple]

I have noticed recently that Gemporia are now stating treatments - in full - on their graphics. In the past when an item was shown it said "F" or "I" and you had to be able to look at their treatment page online or call and ask the centre what that letter meant. If you even realised it was a treatment. Now they are state "filled" or "coated" or "irradiated". I think this is a good thing and a step forward but I can't imagine Gemporia did it of their own free will. I would like to think they did, but I wonder if someone twisted their arm? Whichever, it's a bit of progress towards more honesty and transparency and it is good to see.

It’s all thanks to TMWNN.

Enough is enough.....

I've just referred Gemporia to the ASA again. I usually like Adina as a presenter, but 5 minutes before she finished, she was waffling absolute nonsense about two rings - one being a Ethiopian Paraiba Blue Opal Ring and the other being an Ethiopian Paradise Blue Opal Ring. First of all, she...

forum.shoppingtelly.com

 

[SnowMoon]

It’s all thanks to TMWNN.

Enough is enough.....

I've just referred Gemporia to the ASA again. I usually like Adina as a presenter, but 5 minutes before she finished, she was waffling absolute nonsense about two rings - one being a Ethiopian Paraiba Blue Opal Ring and the other being an Ethiopian Paradise Blue Opal Ring. First of all, she...

forum.shoppingtelly.com

Ah, I did not think they were doing it willingly. But it's a step forward for the consumer - and shows that contacting the ASA does have a concrete effect that even Gems don't always ignore.

 

[Kit10]

It’s a small step forward, but they need to point this out regularly during the presentation. They have enough time to chat to the Gallery and to read out messages, so they definitely have time to discuss the treatments.

 

[TheManWithNoName]

Yep, they were forced to do it after I referred them again to the ASA.

BUT I've already noticed that there's a glitch. Whether its deliberate or not, I'll let others decide, but I've spotted two problems so far over the past week or so:

1. Some of the description boxes are longer and "push" the treatment details off screen. For example, As I type this, gobby Hattie is doing a Crystal Opal on Ironstone ring. That description box says "This design is from our Jacques Christie Collection. Average Weight of 9k Gold 1.99g". Because its so long, there is no treatment showing - but the stone is 'Assembled'.

Yet the following item, simply said "Average Weight of 9k Gold 1.99g". The stone was untreated - so no description needed to be shown. So the question has to be asked, why was only "Average Weight of 9k Gold 1.99g" showing - with no reference to the collection the item was from. Did the previous item deliberately contain more information to "push" the treatment off the description box?

2. On several occasions, I've spotted the description information duplicated - so, instead of saying "Average Weight of 9k Gold 1.99g", it said "Average Weight of 9k Gold 1.99g. Average Weight of 9k Gold 1.99g" - again, making the description longer and "pushing" the treatment off screen.

These could be genuine errors - but I am sceptical - and I shall be watching closely over the next few weeks. If this continues, I shall be taking screenshots and informing the ASA that despite instructing Gemporia to make the graphics clearer, there have been some "omissions".

If Gemporia are going to stick to longer descriptions, then in my opinion, they need to add a third rotation to the graphics so that the treatment is ALWAYS shown - regardless of how long or short the description box is on the rotation before.

 

[TheManWithNoName]

It’s a small step forward, but they need to point this out regularly during the presentation. They have enough time to chat to the Gallery and to read out messages, so they definitely have time to discuss the treatments.

Yes, they also need to cut out the BS about 'cutting out the middleman' too.

Poppy was flogging Diamonds earlier and mentioned that they buy "direct from the mine" - but they've already told us in the past they that buy their diamonds from either De Beers or Rio Tinto.

They also say they reduce their costs by "cutting out the middleman" on other stones too - yet they openly make a big deal about telling us that they source stones from the Tucson gem show, amongst others. I can't remember the last time they actually went to a mine. Mogok a few years ago? I can't recall any since.

It's also nonsense to tell us they reduce costs by cutting out middlemen, when, a lot of the time, they needlessly have Troth or Toby on waffling endlessly. Those guys are being paid. If they didn't keep coming on to waffle through shows, then they could save money by not having them and, ultimately, pass that saving on to customers.

 

[historymystery]

Ah, I did not think they were doing it willingly. But it's a step forward for the consumer - and shows that contacting the ASA does have a concrete effect that even Gems don't always ignore.

Adina talks such convoluted crapspeak at times I don't think she knows what she's saying. She's almost a female Peter Simon at times. 'The beauty of the descriptive knowledge formulated in this work of Mother Nature's harem is beyond the realms of pricelessness' - or words to this effect.

 

[AndyW]

Jess Foley: "... natural sea pearls...". Nope. Sorry, luv. Chinese freshwater, cultured in a man-made lake somewhere darling. It'll be on your monitor in front of you?

 

[TheManWithNoName]

Jess Foley: "... natural sea pearls...". Nope. Sorry, luv. Chinese freshwater, cultured in a man-made lake somewhere darling. It'll be on your monitor in front of you?

It always baffles me how they can claim that 'cultured' pearls are natural. They even put the (N) next to them on Gem Collector titles.

 

[AndyW]

At least GC only used to sell loose Charlie Barron pearls. Pearls are an oddity when it comes to what's "natural".

Unless you are buying a piece of antique jewellery - say, pre-1900 - you are almost certainly going to be getting a farmed, "cultured" pearl. I don't see it as any different to buying farmed salmon, sea bass, beef, oysters from Scotland or carrots. Truly natural pearls, found by chance, which are worth setting are rare in the proper sense of the word. You can buy "river pearls", found in the great American lakes and rivers; lovely, irregular and "baroque" but they aren't common.

In my view, Charlie B's pearls are as natural as they're going to be; grown as naturally as possible in sea waters in small farms, with no post-harvest treatment. Years ago now, I bought an 18K Charlie B pearl pendant as a gift. The pearl was everything it could be, 99% round, lovely warm, ivory colour with an orient that had pinks and greens as you moved it.

Japanese pearls are lovely and just a small step down from Charlie's product. I have an Akoya pearl bracelet from Charlie's offering. Warm ivory, slightly irregular with a lovely lustre.

Chinese pearls are a totally different thing altogether. Mass farmed in huge, inland - and often man-made - lakes, they undergo every possible treatment available; heating, irradiation, bleaching, dyeing, sanding - you name it. Gems TV's use of the term "naturally coloured" is, in my view, sketchy at best. OK but costume jewellery level. Fine for what they are but nothing close to natural.

But I might be deluded in that reasoning!

 

[TheManWithNoName]

I've got no issue with cultured pearls or treatments in general - so long as they're disclosed.

If any stone or pearl has had an human interference though, then it should not be called 'untreated' in my opinion.

 

[AndyW]

I've got no issue with cultured pearls or treatments in general - so long as they're disclosed.

If any stone or pearl has had an human interference though, then it should not be called 'untreated' in my opinion.

Absolutely. That's one thing that TGGC has going for it - their routine treatment disclosure. TJC are shocking about it. Juwelo doesn't do it, routinely either. Interesting that you mentioned the history of Chalmers Gems - their listings have treatment disclosure too.

 

[TheManWithNoName]

Interesting that you mentioned the history of Chalmers Gems - their listings have treatment disclosure too.

That's interesting, because they never used to.

I wonder if its something they've decided to do recently - or something they've always wanted to do, but they only list it when they're 100% certain beyond all doubt that what they're selling is untreated.

 

[AndyW]

Bit of a ramble, so apologies, but I see that Kate is putting up Colombian emerald jewellery up for sale this morning (examples in attached image). A 30s Google search found a US treatment library that explained this, so why I'm surprised shows my ignorance, but I really didn't think that emeralds were routinely treated by fissure/fracture filling (an overarching term that probably includes colour enhancement as part of the treatment).

The prices seem to be quite high, for what they are in that case. The pieces in the attached snapshot are all tiny "stones" and all set in 2g - or considerably less than that - of 9K gold. A price comparison with their range of Malagasy ruby 9K pieces on the website (not in auction) shows the emeralds to be proportionally marked up too. Trading, perhaps, on the "Colombian" label.

 

[TheManWithNoName]

Bit of a ramble, so apologies, but I see that Kate is putting up Colombian emerald jewellery up for sale this morning (examples in attached image). A 30s Google search found a US treatment library that explained this, so why I'm surprised shows my ignorance, but I really didn't think that emeralds were routinely treated by fissure/fracture filling (an overarching term that probably includes colour enhancement as part of the treatment).

The prices seem to be quite high, for what they are in that case. The pieces in the attached snapshot are all tiny "stones" and all set in 2g - or considerably less than that - of 9K gold. A price comparison with their range of Malagasy ruby 9K pieces on the website (not in auction) shows the emeralds to be proportionally marked up too. Trading, perhaps, on the "Colombian" label.

Yeah, They've had a parcel of Colombian Emeralds that are filled - but that isn't reflected in the price.

It does seem to be becoming more common to see Beryl's being filled (across Gemporia anyway). They've been flogging some filled Aquamarine on Gem Collector too - but, again, it isn't reflected in the price though.

 

[VapidStoat]

They really should stop saying that they're against fake gems if their stones contain filling materials or diffused elements, or have been dyed and coated.

If stones have to be radically altered to make them jewellery worthy, then they're not far off being fakes.

Compounded by Gemporia being caught in the past selling lab created materials as natural Earth mined, or simulants as real gem stones.

 

[TheManWithNoName]

They really should stop saying that they're against fake gems if their stones contain filling materials or diffused elements, or have been dyed and coated.

If stones have to be radically altered to make them jewellery worthy, then they're not far off being fakes.

Compounded by Gemporia being caught in the past selling lab created materials as natural Earth mined, or simulants as real gem stones.

Totally agree. Its debatable as to whether they should still be considered 'genuine gemstones' or not - but that's for the industry to decide.

What I do think is immoral is selling them by carat weight when that 'carat weight' is weighing the crap fillers inside them. It's not a true representation of the 'actual' weight of what you're getting in genuine gemstone.

It's against the law to sell 'organic' things such as Amber, Pearls and Abalone (and shells in general) by carat weight because they're not 'stones' - so that law should be extended to anything else that has been pumped full of 'non-stone' materials too.

 

[Rose de France]

It does seem to be becoming more common to see Beryl's being filled (across Gemporia anyway).

They also use filled amazonites and tourmalines.

https://www.gemporia.com/en-gb/prod...-in-gold-tone-sterling-silver-3.10cts/fsgp59/

https://www.gemporia.com/en-gb/prod...ing-silver-huaigu-bracelet-atgw-33cts/wvgp36/

I've seen other filled gemstones as well.

 

[VapidStoat]

Totally agree. Its debatable as to whether they should still be considered 'genuine gemstones' or not - but that's for the industry to decide.

What I do think is immoral is selling them by carat weight when that 'carat weight' is weighing the crap fillers inside them. It's not a true representation of the 'actual' weight of what you're getting in genuine gemstone.

It's against the law to sell 'organic' things such as Amber, Pearls and Abalone (and shells in general) by carat weight because they're not 'stones' - so that law should be extended to anything else that has been pumped full of 'non-stone' materials too.

I had never thought of that, but it's very true. Carat weight should include the true weight of the real gemstone material. Maybe along with the total stone weight too, so potential buyers can see just how much is filler, and make their decisions accordingly.

 

[VapidStoat]

They also use filled amazonites and tourmalines.

https://www.gemporia.com/en-gb/prod...-in-gold-tone-sterling-silver-3.10cts/fsgp59/

https://www.gemporia.com/en-gb/prod...ing-silver-huaigu-bracelet-atgw-33cts/wvgp36/

I've seen other filled gemstones as well.

No wonder they've been able to keep going after almost going bust. I feel sorry for those who think that they're getting real bargains that will absolutely rocket in value in the future