Julia asking folk to text their 'forename'

[BusyMum]

My DD is in her 30s and obviously she's been brought up to be polite and well-mannered - I'm generalising and offering MY opinion of what things will be like in the future - sadly, the festering under-class are well on their way to outnumbering the decent and respectable people of not just this country probably but the whole world.

PS - equality...I've seen many cases of young women and young mums losing out on jobs to men because an employer would have to pay them the same wage, and obviously women get pregnant, women are usually the ones to stay home and look after sick children.

 

[charlie]

Have I upset you?

No, I'm so sorry if I gave that impression. I suppose I get a little defensive at even the slightest suggestion that only older people have good manners. Sometimes I wonder if the expectation of good manners goes away (i.e. if people expect younger people to be lacking in manners) it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I think what I was trying to say is that I personally expect good manners and sadly I have experienced poor or just downright bad manners from all age groups.

 

[BusyMum]

No, I'm so sorry if I gave that impression. I suppose I get a little defensive at even the slightest suggestion that only older people have good manners. Sometimes I wonder if the expectation of good manners goes away (i.e. if people expect younger people to be lacking in manners) it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I think what I was trying to say is that I personally expect good manners and sadly I have experienced poor or just downright bad manners from all age groups.

I thought I detected a certain froideur..! I agree with you Charlie, there are good and bad in all age groups, but again I'm generalising...I've had people in my own age bracket behave impolitely or rudely, but not as many as the younger age groups - some really old people can be impossibly rude - I guess that's because they've got to the age where they really don't give a fig what anyone thinks - ahem..I'm rapidly reaching that stage!!

 

[donna255]

Can I say here in Belfast everyone and I mean everyone, teenagers up to pensioners women and men hold doors for the person behind them. Normally you get a Thanks. Now try queue jumping at the bus stop and you will loose a knee cap.

 

[BusyMum]

Can I say here in Belfast everyone and I mean everyone, teenagers up to pensioners women and men hold doors for the person behind them. Normally you get a Thanks. Now try queue jumping at the bus stop and you will loose a knee cap.

now that would be lovely Donna..I've lost count of the times I hold doors open and people walk thru without a glance, a thanks, or take the door off you - I normally now say loudly "you're welcome" and get a black look in return!

 

[charlie]

I thought I detected a certain froideur..! I agree with you Charlie, there are good and bad in all age groups, but again I'm generalising...I've had people in my own age bracket behave impolitely or rudely, but not as many as the younger age groups - some really old people can be impossibly rude - I guess that's because they've got to the age where they really don't give a fig what anyone thinks - ahem..I'm rapidly reaching that stage!!

Bad manners and rudeness just riles me! I do worry that we almost encourage it by assuming that younger people will have bad manners - and I know I'm as guilty of this as anyone, I have been known to automatically assume any teenager will be rude and ignorant. Happily I have been proved wrong, sadly I have also been proved right.

 

[charlie]

now that would be lovely Donna..I've lost count of the times I hold doors open and people walk thru without a glance, a thanks, or take the door off you - I normally now say loudly "you're welcome" and get a black look in return!

I'm a "you're more than welcome" Can't help myself.

 

[janie]

i think as everyone is saying, it all comes down to manners doesn't it? like the miss/ms/mrs duscussion we had.

where i work, it's like the league of nations and we all get along just fine. i can't say every single person is a sweetheart but i can say all the foreign ones are! because as a rule, they are more polite than the english, i can say with confidence that if i asked a christian name, they would know i was not trying to be offensive, more saying something out of habit and they would therefore not take offence.

 

[White Russian]

My DD is in her 30s and obviously she's been brought up to be polite and well-mannered - I'm generalising and offering MY opinion of what things will be like in the future - sadly, the festering under-class are well on their way to outnumbering the decent and respectable people of not just this country probably but the whole world.

PS - equality...I've seen many cases of young women and young mums losing out on jobs to men because an employer would have to pay them the same wage, and obviously women get pregnant, women are usually the ones to stay home and look after sick children.

I certainly wouldn't suggest equality has been achieved and it's 'job done'; my gripe was a woman saying she hadn't wanted equality at all.

 

[BusyMum]

I certainly wouldn't suggest equality has been achieved and it's 'job done'; my gripe was a woman saying she hadn't wanted equality at all.

I said I hadn't ASKED for equality, but whatever, what's for you to gripe about? It's MY opinion, nobody's saying you have to agree with it! Some women wanted it, some weren't bothered - there are cons as well as pros, we now have the scenario where both women and men have to work to 65 or older before retiring. Luckily (for me) I was born before the watershed and could retire and draw a state pension at 60 - a lot of other ladies can't do that and wish they could, so it can be a case of be careful what you wish for ..you might get something you don't want!

 

[janie]

too right carol - now i'm nearing the age for pension, it really ticks me off that i won't get it at 60!

 

[Pinkpussycat]

Me too, I won't get my state pension until I'm nearly 64 and it will be longer still for all the younger women on here pontificating about equality.

 

[White Russian]

I said I hadn't ASKED for equality, but whatever, what's for you to gripe about? It's MY opinion, nobody's saying you have to agree with it! Some women wanted it, some weren't bothered - there are cons as well as pros, we now have the scenario where both women and men have to work to 65 or older before retiring. Luckily (for me) I was born before the watershed and could retire and draw a state pension at 60 - a lot of other ladies can't do that and wish they could, so it can be a case of be careful what you wish for ..you might get something you don't want!

And I'm entitled to have an opinion on your views. I think the generation of women who have grown up enjoying all the opportunities the equality campaign has brought wouldn't be too quick to give that up, even for a seat on the bus or an extra few years of state pension. I'll happily work for as long as a man if it means I can do the same jobs as him, if I can be a doctor as well as a nurse and a manager as well as a secretary. I'd want those opportunities for my daughter too, and you take the good with the bad, just like men do. The european case that ruled women had to work for as long as men was actually brought by a woman who was being forced to retire earlier than her male colleagues. Perhaps she needed the money. Perhaps she enjoyed her job. Either way, it goes to show being forced to give up work because of your gender wasn't welcomed by everyone.

 

[BusyMum]

And I'm entitled to have an opinion on your views. I think the generation of women who have grown up enjoying all the opportunities the equality campaign has brought wouldn't be too quick to give that up, even for a seat on the bus or an extra few years of state pension. I'll happily work for as long as a man if it means I can do the same jobs as him, if I can be a doctor as well as a nurse and a manager as well as a secretary. I'd want those opportunities for my daughter too, and you take the good with the bad, just like men do. The european case that ruled women had to work for as long as men was actually brought by a woman who was being forced to retire earlier than her male colleagues. Perhaps she needed the money. Perhaps she enjoyed her job. Either way, it goes to show being forced to give up work because of your gender wasn't welcomed by everyone.

Of course you are - and I don't have to agree with it either! If you want to work till you're 70, 75, 80, you are perfectly entitled to, as long as anyone wants you! But that same woman you are on about has also brought about the law that now forces women who DON'T want to work on & on & on to have to do just that! Unfortunately it's one size fits all!

 

[White Russian]

Me too, I won't get my state pension until I'm nearly 64 and it will be longer still for all the younger women on here pontificating about equality.

"young women pontificating about equality". I fear you are not seeing the bigger picture when you say being treated as a second class citizen is worth not having to wait an extra 4 years to receive your bread-line state pension, but enough. I think we can conclude women of my generation and women of your generation see themselves and their role in society very differently and we'll leave it at that.

 

[Dame Fondacox]

I've been using the term, firstname, since the 1980s and it just sounds so dated to hear someone say 'christian' name. Perhaps someone told Julia it was ageing her.

 

[White Russian]

Of course you are - and I don't have to agree with it either! If you want to work till you're 70, 75, 80, you are perfectly entitled to, as long as anyone wants you! But that same woman you are on about has also brought about the law that now forces women who DON'T want to work on & on & on to have to do just that! Unfortunately it's one size fits all!

yes, that is the point of equality - the same rules apply to everyone.

A final thought - wouldn't you be better arguing that NOBODY should have to work until they are 65, 70, or whatever, rather than arguing that women are some sort of special case?

 

[Frazzled]

I think we can conclude women of my generation and women of your generation see themselves and their role in society very differently and we'll leave it at that.

I think we can conclude that's rather a sweeping generalisation isn't it?

 

[BusyMum]

yes, that is the point of equality - the same rules apply to everyone.

A final thought - wouldn't you be better arguing that NOBODY should have to work until they are 65, 70, or whatever, rather than arguing that women are some sort of special case?

I think we could argue (when it applied) that men could retire at 60 too! Alternatively we could argue for another week and we will never see each other's point of view - but then again that's what a forum is for, for everyone to air their views & opinions and hopefully do it in a civilised fashion, which I think we've managed (well, so far!)

 

[Frazzled]

As an atheist, I don't have strong views either way over Christian name v anything else, it's just a term, but I think BB is right, as the country has become so multi-cultural maybe a neutral term as far as media, employers, business etc goes would more appropriate. I think I just usually ask people "what is your first name?"

It's beyond me why religion or faith is the cause of so much angst around the world, very sad.

I had the option to retire at 60 but could continue to 65 if I wanted to. Now they have the scrapped the retirement age all together I'm not planning to go beyond 65 but I like the idea that I could - provided I was still capable. Employers will undoubtedly bring in some kind of capability standard for older workers, probably where personnel are over the state pension age. I don't know a great deal about this law but I'm guessing, as an employee, you could retire whenever you wanted after completing the required number of years for your company/private pension - assuming you have one of course. There would be nothing to stop you retiring at the state pension age if you so wished.

I have friends caught up in the staggered state pension age and they are all understandably a bit miffed. The problem is there are always people caught up in the transition period whenever changes like this take place, though I'm not saying this doesn't still make it very annoying.