General Banter and Random Musings

[Glen_C]

It's odd that I don't remember him from that channel, but I can recall all the other presenters who mostly now work on TJC (including IW).

 

[PhaedrusR]

Hi SeenonTV staffers.

Why do your #tiktok videos (text overlays) say you're on Freeview 79, when the Freeview Guide says it's 94.

Is your TV as old as mine and kept 79 when the withdrawn EarthXtv output channel changed to SeenonTV, without a full channel retune update on the telly?!

Also, why does @Simon-Iles think #tiktok videos are the way to go when I suspect that your target demographic is NOT TikTok users?!

 

[The Insider]

Insider you might have some insight into this - if Shop Extra flopped selling, basically, the same products, same presenters, same presentation style, and, unrelated but thematically neat, the same set - what is the likelihood of Seen Before on TV succeeding ?

Is it simply: shop extra made money, just not enough to justify the effort? Or it made next to no money? Is Simon able to do replicate it with, seemingly, fewer resources thus what constitutes a success/return for him is different to what Hochanda (?) were needing from Flop Extra?

Shop Extra made no money, quite literally - they had many shows that sold zero. The only reason it was created was because Paul Wright wanted a vehicle through which to bid for the late night airtime on ITV (which he did pitch for along with TJC and of course, Shop on TV). When he didn't get that airtime, he quickly wound up Shop Extra and tried to say it was because Ideal World had been acquired and he was happy for suppliers and staff to go there. Not long after this, he and Val "retired" as they were fed up of continue looses from HOCHANDA / Create & Craft. Those who are still at C&C feel the future is bleak.

As many will remember, Simon was one of the first guests on Shop Extra's launch night and although he had one of their better performing shows, it wasn't enough for him to go back and do another live show with them. It's anyones guess why he has tried to replicate one of the quickest failures in the history of shopping TV, even going so far as to employing people who were directly responsible for creating Shop Extra. His only point of difference is that he is live for more hours and broadcasting on Freeview - 2 of the biggest costs you will ever incur as a shopping channel.

Simon, Shona and Mark can make as many cheap digs as they like about IW but no one at IW / TJC / VGL is the least bit bothered about Seen on TV and I can guarantee they will be around long after Seen on TV either bites the dust or, it becomes a channel full of pre-recorded programming.

On Ideal World's launch night back in 2000, they received over 200 orders in 3 hours.

On Seen on TV's launch day, they received less than 40 orders in 12 hours.

Times are changing and I think Simon will come to regret ploughing all his TikTok Shop profits into a declining market.

 

[PhaedrusR]

Shop Extra made no money, quite literally - they had many shows that sold zero. The only reason it was created was because Paul Wright wanted a vehicle through which to bid for the late night airtime on ITV (which he did pitch for along with TJC and of course, Shop on TV). When he didn't get that airtime, he quickly wound up Shop Extra and tried to say it was because Ideal World had been acquired and he was happy for suppliers and staff to go there. Not long after this, he and Val "retired" as they were fed up of continue looses from HOCHANDA / Create & Craft. Those who are still at C&C feel the future is bleak.

As many will remember, Simon was one of the first guests on Shop Extra's launch night and although he had one of their better performing shows, it wasn't enough for him to go back and do another live show with them. It's anyones guess why he has tried to replicate one of the quickest failures in the history of shopping TV, even going so far as to employing people who were directly responsible for creating Shop Extra. His only point of difference is that he is live for more hours and broadcasting on Freeview - 2 of the biggest costs you will ever incur as a shopping channel.

Simon, Shona and Mark can make as many cheap digs as they like about IW but no one at IW / TJC / VGL is the least bit bothered about Seen on TV and I can guarantee they will be around long after Seen on TV either bites the dust or, it becomes a channel full of pre-recorded programming.

On Ideal World's launch night back in 2000, they received over 200 orders in 3 hours.

On Seen on TV's launch day, they received less than 40 orders in 12 hours.

Times are changing and I think Simon will come to regret ploughing all his TikTok Shop profits into a declining market.

Fantastic info, thanks @The Insider !

My understanding/assumptions were:

(1) Viewership was low as it didn't have a standalone Freeview channel slot. Not many were watching ShopExtra on the red button/interactive TV or Youtube feeds and too few hours were on C&C Extra when it morphed into SExtra. Not constant enough to be found or maintain an audience. Unfortunate.

(2) ShopExtra was created by PW to give his former IW/C&C staff colleagues a job when IW2 closed. Was he that magnanimous or was that just the 'spin' put on all this?

Care to correct the record? @The Insider ? Thanks.

 

[Jazzydrury]

I always thought Sky was the main platform

 

[PhaedrusR]

I always thought Sky was the main platform

Well, the target 'OAP' demographic probably don't have Sky as much as the main population. Freeview is the defacto standard TV service, replacing the analogue aerial TV. Any pay TV , Freesat, etc. is less common, as I understand it.
It was on Sky, sure but how many watched it there either?

 

[Herring]

What I find very sad, is that many purchasers, on channels now gone, were trying to build collections of these things, as ‘heirlooms’ to pass on to their children. One poor soul had spent tens of thousands on what, i have to tell you, was an essentially worthless collection with a likely lifespan of 5 years or less. If we can get away from the hyperbole, and be accurate about provenance, i think you could actually still sell as many, and possibly with repeat purchases for longer.

And this is precisely the issue for me — for clarity: what follows isn't specific to Seen on TV, just in general.

It isn't that Selly Telly flog Chinese fashion watches under resurrected brand names (long-since divorced from their lineage); it isn't they focus on emphasising gimmicky nonsense over technical detail (e.g. repeating 100m water resistance but glossing over the movement); it's not even the pricing (i.e.., selling $50 watches for £249 whilst talking of £1000 'book prices').

No, what leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and causes me to be riled up by watch shows above and beyond anything else, is their predatory nature.

Shopping TV channels effectively prey on people's desires to own something of worth in life and, as many of the presenters constantly remind them, 'leave something behind' once they've shuffled off the mortal coil.

While the likes of Pedro et al don't give "investment advice", it is but a wink and a nudge away from that. All that talk of "luxury, exceptional quality, hand-made, rare and collectible, one of only 50 that will ever be made, book price should be/the bracelet alone is worth/this will go up to silly money" plants the seed to the viewer that "this will be worth something".

Any other industry where —if we're blunt, old— people are conned into buying something based on false price information, inferred heritage, and pressure-selling tactics about "your last opportunity to own something few of us could ever afford or aspire to own"…

I mean… It skirts very close to the sort of things people get chased around industrial estates by a portly BBC presenter and film crew over, if you catch my drift.

And yet all of those concerns would evaporate instantly if Selly Telly just sold fashion watches for what they are: fashion watches, rather than exquisite heirlooms of such inherent value that we simply must insure them.

 

[PhaedrusR]

Shop Extra made no money, quite literally - they had many shows that sold zero. The only reason it was created was because Paul Wright wanted a vehicle through which to bid for the late night airtime on ITV (which he did pitch for along with TJC and of course, Shop on TV). When he didn't get that airtime, he quickly wound up Shop Extra and tried to say it was because Ideal World had been acquired and he was happy for suppliers and staff to go there. Not long after this, he and Val "retired" as they were fed up of continue looses from HOCHANDA / Create & Craft. Those who are still at C&C feel the future is bleak.

As many will remember, Simon was one of the first guests on Shop Extra's launch night and although he had one of their better performing shows, it wasn't enough for him to go back and do another live show with them. It's anyones guess why he has tried to replicate one of the quickest failures in the history of shopping TV, even going so far as to employing people who were directly responsible for creating Shop Extra. His only point of difference is that he is live for more hours and broadcasting on Freeview - 2 of the biggest costs you will ever incur as a shopping channel.

Simon, Shona and Mark can make as many cheap digs as they like about IW but no one at IW / TJC / VGL is the least bit bothered about Seen on TV and I can guarantee they will be around long after Seen on TV either bites the dust or, it becomes a channel full of pre-recorded programming.

On Ideal World's launch night back in 2000, they received over 200 orders in 3 hours.

On Seen on TV's launch day, they received less than 40 orders in 12 hours.

Times are changing and I think Simon will come to regret ploughing all his TikTok Shop profits into a declining market.

@The Insider Do you have any inside info on ShoponTV or Discount Dragon? (Are you Jamie Martin?)

 

[PhaedrusR]

And this is precisely the issue for me — for clarity: what follows isn't specific to Seen on TV, just in general.

It isn't that Selly Telly flog Chinese fashion watches under resurrected brand names (long-since divorced from their lineage); it isn't they focus on emphasising gimmicky nonsense over technical detail (e.g. repeating 100m water resistance but glossing over the movement); it's not even the pricing (i.e.., selling $50 watches for £249 whilst talking of £1000 'book prices').

No, what leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and causes me to be riled up by watch shows above and beyond anything else, is their predatory nature.

Shopping TV channels effectively prey on people's desires to own something of worth in life and, as many of the presenters constantly remind them, 'leave something of value' behind once they've shuffled off the mortal coil.

While they're not giving "investment advice" it is but a wink and a nudge away from that. All that talk of "luxury, exceptional quality, hand-made, rare and collectible, one of only 50 that will ever be made" plants the seed to the viewer that "this will be worth something".

Any other industry where —if we're blunt, old— people are conned into buying something based on false price information, inferred heritage, and pressure-selling tactics about "your last opportunity to own something few of us could ever afford or aspire to own"…

I mean… It skirts very close to the sort of things people get chased around industrial estates by a portly BBC presenter and film crew over, if you catch my drift.

And yet all of those concerns would evaporate instantly if Selly Telly just sold fashion watches for what they are: fashion watches, rather than exquisite heirlooms of such inherent value that we simply must insure them.

As per IW thread, what about Trading Standards (and Watchdog/consumer affairs progs), if not the toothless ineffective ASA.

Is shopping TV considered Advertising and not Ofcom programming then?

 

[Jazzydrury]

There is a TV show Rip off Britain, sometimes airs after BBC Breakfast , Think Gloria Hunniford and Angela Rippon present it

 

[Alex Knowles]

Insider is right. It is ****** difficult to set up a shopping channel and run it. I had no idea just how much work and money has to go into this and as I said before, it’s given me a whole new level of respect to anyone - Jamie Martin, Ideal World, Paul / Val and now Simon for having the determination to do it and to put there money up to try and achieve it.

That’s why I’m happy to be transparent here as well. I have nothing bad to say about Shop on TV, IW/TJC etc because for me, they offered me work when the old IW went down and supported many people who lost there jobs due to the collapse of the old IW.

Simon saw a gap in the market because a lot of the old brands that were originally on IW are not on the new IW, nor on QVC.
Shop on TV is fantastic, many of my friends work there and I have nothing negative to say - I’m still guesting mattress shows with them and they are a really well run channel.
But before they had their freeview channel they were midnight - 3am.

So we saw a gap. We saw customers who said they wanted something different from the new IW and QVC in the day time.

So we went for it. We built a studio, spent weeks negotiating with Freeview for a channel and put together a small team to build it behind the scenes.
We wanted to tweak things as well. To bring in some different products as well as the ones that we know do well and of course help us make some money so we can keep going.

We have our pick thankfully of the best people in the business with regards to the entire team infront of the camera and very much so behind.
But we also have a modest budget, because Simon has put everything into this and we are doing our best to bring something different and engaging that will grow.
We’ve had to launch during the summer, the Euros and a General election .
Not ideal but we know that and are proud of the output we have achieved so far.

So we keep going and everyday we are growing and it’s only been 5 days. It’s been the best (and most tiring!) experience I have every had and let’s just keep going. Let’s keep listening to you, try to bring something genuinely new so you feel listened too because if we can earn customers trust, we will earn there sales. That’s the plan anyway.

 

[Jazzydrury]

I’m sure I only saw Alex with Joanne on IW last week

 

[Alex Knowles]

I’m sure I only saw Alex with Joanne on IW last week

Hi Jazzy, yep you did. I represent GX pillows so as long as another channel is happy to have me as a brand ambassador we can work on their channel. That’s one of the issues all channels have with guests. If we are seen on one channel then we can’t be used on another channel (unless we are associated with a product), which I understand but it does restrict us sometimes on how often we can work. This is why a lot of channels use lots of guests to do multiple products. Because it’s a small pool of people that do this job. Simon has been great with the guests here and told us that if we are working on Seen On TV he will not restrict anyone from working anywhere else.

 

[Jazzydrury]

I’ve often wondered why some products are only on one channel, as more could be sold on different channels

Like yesterday Create and Craft were doing the Shammys

Simon and Alex must know people at all these channels

 

[Alex Knowles]

I’ve often wondered why some products are only on one channel, as more could be sold on different channels

Like yesterday Create and Craft were doing the Shammys

Simon and Alex must know people at all these channels

Truth is Jazzy we all know each other. It’s a close family and I know that sounds corny but it’s true. I have some great friends at QVC, Shop on TV, IW both in front and behind the camera. Not many people sadly want to work in shopping TV because it’s long hours, all times of the day and there is no certainty on when you will be booked. So we can have a really busy month but then nothing for 2 months so I have always been grateful to any channel that has offered me the opportunity to learn about a product and come explain / describe it on air.

 

[stratobuddy]

Insider is right. It is ****** difficult to set up a shopping channel and run it. I had no idea just how much work and money has to go into this and as I said before, it’s given me a whole new level of respect to anyone - Jamie Martin, Ideal World, Paul / Val and now Simon for having the determination to do it and to put there money up to try and achieve it.

That’s why I’m happy to be transparent here as well. I have nothing bad to say about Shop on TV, IW/TJC etc because for me, they offered me work when the old IW went down and supported many people who lost there jobs due to the collapse of the old IW.

Simon saw a gap in the market because a lot of the old brands that were originally on IW are not on the new IW, nor on QVC.
Shop on TV is fantastic, many of my friends work there and I have nothing negative to say - I’m still guesting mattress shows with them and they are a really well run channel.
But before they had their freeview channel they were midnight - 3am.

So we saw a gap. We saw customers who said they wanted something different from the new IW and QVC in the day time.

So we went for it. We built a studio, spent weeks negotiating with Freeview for a channel and put together a small team to build it behind the scenes.
We wanted to tweak things as well. To bring in some different products as well as the ones that we know do well and of course help us make some money so we can keep going.

We have our pick thankfully of the best people in the business with regards to the entire team infront of the camera and very much so behind.
But we also have a modest budget, because Simon has put everything into this and we are doing our best to bring something different and engaging that will grow.
We’ve had to launch during the summer, the Euros and a General election .
Not ideal but we know that and are proud of the output we have achieved so far.

So we keep going and everyday we are growing and it’s only been 5 days. It’s been the best (and most tiring!) experience I have every had and let’s just keep going. Let’s keep listening to you, try to bring something genuinely new so you feel listened too because if we can earn customers trust, we will earn there sales. That’s the plan anyway.

What's the difference between "Shop on TV" and "Seen on TV", is it the same company?

 

[Jazzydrury]

What's the difference between "Shop on TV" and "Seen on TV", is it the same company?

No

 

[stratobuddy]

No

I can only get one, I think it is on CH 94, can't get CH 79 even after a retune.

 

[Flying Pigs]

I think Dean must get the award for being on the most channels as along with his 'now' work he always seems to be on infomercials from way back when you channel hop.

 

[Jazzydrury]

You can tell there aren’t that many presenters and guests around really, as Most of them have been working in shopping TV 20 years plus, and If they leave one channel they Just move to another

If you watch enough like we do, you can tell the presenters and guests work crazy shifts, they might be well paid, but they have a life